I can’t say it enough times. The men’s rights (MRA) movement needs to divorce itself entirely from racism, and to end all associations with racists and “HBD” junk science. If MRA wants to be taken seriously as a movement, it needs to evict all associations with known racists and to amplify the liberal, gender-egalitarian, anti-racist voice of activists like this one.
Racism is disgusting, immoral, and downright evil. It’s also the most universally hated ideology (although, sadly, still an attitude many people hold) in the civilized world, so any movement that can be associated with racism is doomed to fail. We weaken our ability to be accepted by the mainstream if we accept racists under our umbrella. To include racism in one’s political strategy is to bet bitterly against social progress, and that I’m not willing to do. Racist political strategies worked– a deeply depressing fact– for the right wing into the 1980s, and were successful even in the 2000 Republican primaries, when Rove’s “black daughter” rumor sunk John McCain in South Carolina. However, they don’t work anymore, and even if they did, it’d be completely morally unacceptable to use them.
I am an MRA because I am a hard-line, no-bullshit egalitarian. If I were born in China or Saudi Arabia, where women are treated horribly, I’d be a staunch feminist instead. However, I live in a society where men are at a disadvantage, and I believe it necessary to correct these injustices. We can start by eliminating divorce theft and increasing the penalties associated with casual sex. Given the damage they do to the dating and marital environment, it is a crime not to jail and rehabilitate alphas for example.
Moderate and proper MRA is not about restoring some 1950s paradise that never actually existed, keeping women “barefoot and pregnant”, or limiting womens’ roles in society. It’s about restoring a culture that honors love and the family, and one that encourages men and women to be the best they can be. I want to see women succeeding in engineering and science, and I believe we should remove any social obstacles that make it harder for them do so. I want to see the formation of loving couples and families. I want to see women receiving equal pay for equal work. (However, I think women who sleep with alphas, and also those alphas, should have news of their exploits piped into their workplaces. Grass-roots action, friends.)
I’m also quite liberal, for the record. I fully support full rights (including marriage and adoption) for gay people, and my economic positions would be left-of-center everywhere except Scandinavia. My liberalism and MRA come from the same source: my deep desire to see social justice.
On a final note, I believe racism is responsible, to some degree, for the mess we’re in. Female indulgence is an outgrowth of the time-honored practice of putting white women on a pedestal. For example, the current epidemic of female misbehavior began in an era when men would put up with that shit in order to have a white wife. Those who evict racism entirely from their souls open up a much larger pool of women to date, and improve their odds of finding quality women drastically. Interracial and international dating advance the MRA cause and promote personal happiness, a double-win. The most powerful thing a male MRA or MRA sympathizer can do to combat female misbehavior is not to date, fuck, or marry misbehaving women– statistically speaking, a large proportion of those who take such an attitude will marry foreign women and women of color.
“its a crime not to jail and rehabilitate alphas for example”
Watch yourself. This isn’t the thinking of an egalitarian. This is the thinking of a loser.
By “alpha”, I don’t mean “man who is socially successful and naturally attractive to women”. I’m talking about the men who created the hookup culture and who damage women for sport.
If I were in power, I’d make cheating a jailable offense, as well as having sex with two different people with less than 72 hours between them, since these behaviors spread disease and put the innocent at risk.
Since I’m tolerant of fully-consensual kink, I’d allow an exception for legitimate swinger couples. If they took a class that informed them of the emotional and medical risks, and they registered to indicate that the swinging was bilaterally consensual, then this would be an exception to that law.
It’s not sex I have a problem with, but I want to destroy hookup culture and don’t have a problem with punishing some very bad people in order to save society.
Then you need to correct your language. Alphas are not the “hookup culture,” and saying that alphas should be jailed is like saying women should be jailed for the sins of feminists.
Furthermore, most of the ‘players,’ if that is a better term, are merely responding to societal incentives which promote their wanton promiscuity. Why punish them with jail time? Why not punish the sluts? Or the betas who sit idly by when the players go after women? You are just as complicit in the societal inequities as any of them are.
If you want to destroy hookup culture, you eliminate ALL of the legal and society structures that support it. Encouraging the jailing of only one of the groups that takes part in it, looks like witchhunting.
Man up. Shifting the blame onto others is a feminist tactic.
Are you starting an alpha-beta war? LOL. Dude, that is SOOOO not going to happen. Ever. They’ve got a 5000 year head-start.
But I agree with your original premise:
We weaken our ability to be accepted by the mainstream if we accept racists under our umbrella.
I’ve definitely gotten a whiff of racism and chauvinism floating my way when reading some MRA stuff. It mostly seems to be about WM trying to get WW to act like doormats. Not only is that racist, it doesn’t even fit to Christian teachings. It is true that women are asked to be submissive (and I’d LOVE to write about what that actually means) to their husbands but it also orders men to love their wives as Christ loved his church. That means: sacrificially. Some of the MRA guys seem to have forgotten that second part.
http://loveyourwife.wordpress.com/
The betas built society by instituting monogamy, encouraging family formation and future time orientation. Betas have the head start. Alphas are only useful when humanity needs to repopulate fast, and are an anachronism now; betas win when it needs to civilize itself and advance.
I agree. I hope that, as MRA enters the mainstream, there will be more liberal Cless Alveins in the mix. I also hope our moderate element can form an alliance with moderate feminism.
What’s HBD?
Alphas are only useful when humanity needs to repopulate fast, and are an anachronism now; betas win when it needs to civilize itself and advance.
Well, of course that’s true. Everyone knows that.
But that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no going back now. People are enjoying themselves too much (they think) and America and Europe will eventually depopulate and then it won’t matter anyway.
Alpha culture + materialism + easy divorce + cheap and effective contraception = depopulation
America has only managed to keep its birth rate up because of immigration. And now they’re turning against the immigrants. It’s only a matter of time before the birth rate gets below replacement level. And then they’ll be like the Germans, wringing their hands and saying, “How do we get more babies? Where did we go wrong?” *roll eyes*
I also hope our moderate element can form an alliance with moderate feminism.
Yes, but moderate feminists (like myself) won’t listen if there are too many racists, misogynists, and chauvinists chiming in. We’ll get turned off and go back to tending our vegetable gardens.
I see this when speaking about such male-friendly topics with my girlfriends. They’re initially engaged and open about it but then their husbands will saunter by and make some sexist comment and then the subject is dead. Chance missed, lets move on to “Dancing with the Stars”.
Something a lot of MRA’s don’t seem to understand is that a lot of moderate and reasonable women see the damage being done but don’t associate it with policies and laws or even a general political climate. They see it as a bunch of individual topics.
For example, in my homeschooling group there is a huge overrepresentation of highly intelligent, charming, rambunctious young boys. Their mothers don’t see this as part of a wider social pattern, they just pulled their sons out of school because “they canceled recess”, “he couldn’t sit still”, “they were pressuring us to medicate him”, etc. Within the homeschooling and gifted communities there is a growing awareness of this problem but NO ONE associates this with child custody battles, violent crime and delinquency, or the decline in male college degrees.
The only way that MRA are going to make ANY headway is to convince boys’ mothers and happily married women that there is a PATTERN and that it is bad for their sons and husbands. And then they have to get those women to vote. Only moderate women’s votes will sway politicians in any way. Anything else will be a case of MRA’s “talking amongst themselves”.
Well said. My fiance’s mother could not homeschool him since she was a single mother working full time, so she sent him to private schools for bright and gifted children, because he was much too intelligent for Utah (yes I know) public schools.
She told me that he would have been put on Ritalin had he been sent to public schools, and he probably would have gotten into tons more trouble. The policies that are anti-male are also anti-mothers, and she also feels like a lot of young women out there today are not suitable.
This is false. I’m not your so called “alpha” at all I think the better term is player actually. Alpha to me signifies a leader type of person which can be male or female. But you’re wrong in thinking the “betas” instituted monogamy, family formation, and future time orientation. These things were formed super early as a means of survival not a means of civility. By adopting monogamy in a small society you will ensure the gene pool remains diverse, and even though small scale societies 10,000 years ago had no idea what DNA was they could recognize bad shit when it happened and when it occurred like, oh, hemophilia.
Family formation is also a means of survival not a means of civility despite what you may think. Every society around the world has some institution of marriage from super powers like America to small scale society. Looking at small scale society like Inuit people gives us a window into what early humans could have been like. When you view these societies its clear that marriage is more about survival than it is about love.
To use the Inuit as an example, there are some things only women do that without they as a people could not survive and some things that men do that without it they as a people could not survive. Inuits live in a cold harsh environment and someone needs to hunt and bring back food, they need to go out into the elements. If they don’t people are going to starve.
That means since they are going out in a harsh environment they need warm clothes to be able to do their job, which is something that the women do. They make and repair the hunters coats. Repair is extremely essential because if there are rips in the coat they are going to freeze. Marriage insures in a sparsely populated area with no centralized area that you always have a woman to repair your coat and your woman always has you to feed her and her children. THAT is how marriage has traditionally worked. It isn’t until very recently that people have gotten married for the sole purpose of love.
So your claim is highly idealistic and as such is highly illogical. Society wasnt built by betas or alphas or players. It was built by the need to survive which is why you look at traditional society of the Inuit and a traditional society in Africa they are different. At the end of the day humans are just another animal in the animal kingdom and animals are driven to do two things friend: Survive and fuck each other.
You may not like how players behave and I’m inclined to agree with you, but its their decision and the decision of the people they participate in their behaviors with. You seem to forget that the women they involve themselves with have a choice in the matter as well. Prying into other people’s business is unnecessary.
What is HBD “junk science”?
I would like to know.
I manage to keep an equalitarian political philosophy while admitting to myself that it is likely that the sexes are significally mentally and physically different and that the extended family groups we call “races” tend to have differential distributions of certain heritable traits. These do have some policy implications at the margins but day to day:
Who cares?
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes. Cannot agree with this post more. Sometimes I want to puke reading “The Spearhead” because of the thinly veiled predjuices and ignorance that pops up in the comment section and in the articles sometimes as well. A bunch of guys brush up on the latest Steve Sailorisms or get amped over their hostility to teh blacks or teh gays or teh liberals and now they think they’re reading to take on the Feminist Socialist Hegemony. Pa-thetic.
However, I totally disagree about jailing alphas. Although I think what they do is repugnant, I think the best way to weed them out is to increase the social costs on them for promiscuity and shallowness. Even though the damage they wreak harms everyone in the dating pool, the simple truth is that what they are doing—sleeping around—is a personal choice and I wouldn’t want anyone imprisoned for that.
Curious what evidence you have to support the notion of betas instituting monogamy.
Everyone is different.
I’m certainly not a fan of liberals or liberalism. Politically I’m an independent, but very skeptical of liberalism. So in that sense clearly my perspective is different from yours. I’m also skeptical of social conservatives.
I think, in any case, that MRA is not really a political movement, it’s a personal one. There never will be an organized men’s movement, politically. For the reasons you outline — too many of us disagree too vehemently about too many fundamental things, and we’re kind of wired to compete with each other about each and every thing under the sun. I just don’t see any viable political movement.
For that reason, I focus on individual solutions. First, waking men up to the realities of today. And, second, opening their eyes to their options. And then let them choose what they want to do with their lives — whether they are liberal, conservative or something in-between. I don’t need to buy-in to some bullshit egalitarian liberalism to do that, nor do I need to form political coalitions with people, on the left and right both, who have political perspectives that I strongly disagree with. My approach is fundamentally not political, but personal. And that, I think, is the most realistic approach for men.
Dude, Racism is as normal as the day is long. Everyone is racist to some degree, including yourself. It’s a survival program built into our genetics. Children are scared of people that don’t sound like there parents by 6 months. By 2-3 children are scared of people that look different than their parents (that includes a white child raised by a black family. The child will always distrust any group besides blacks for the rest of their life to some degree). It helps people defend against hostile tribes. It also creates an us vs them ethic that all humans practice to some degree. It’s not productive today, but it’s built in at the genetic level and it’s not going away.
If Egalitarian is true why is the NBA almost 100% black? From an egalitarian perspective this must be the result of racism, right? From my perspective my black friends are just taller than me and it makes them better at basketball. How can you believe the lie that is egalitarianism? Are you really that blind that you want to believe a lie?
“amplify the liberal, gender-egalitarian, anti-racist voice of activists like this one”
Why would we bother helping liberals? Libs have done more to destroy American men than any other group. They destroyed first the poor black family and now poor white family with welfare. Men who worked for generations to create a good family structure after slavery saw it wiped out in one generation by a bunch of do gooder (but in the end, evil) progressives handing out welfare checks.
Gender-egalitarian? Under the law sure. But no one practices this under the law. The people who scream most about gender-egalitarian also worked the hardest to screw men. Why in god’s name would I support a cause that’s lead by people like that?
I have a hard time supporting anti-racist activists when most of them seem very racist in their own right. I also don’t think racism is the end of the world. I’ve worked with people who a racists against whites for years. Does not bother me, it’s just something you have to live with.
Novaseeker:
Men’s Rights is a grassroots movement – so you’re right in saying there won’t be an organized movement. This would make sense given that any recent “movements” led by men tend to be grassroots. Ron Paul’s campaign, which I’d guess was mostly male-supported, is a case in point. While men *do* still have structural power in this country, they can’t deploy it in un-PC ways. If men had an organized movement, it would be shot down no matter what they were supporting.
“If I were born in China or Saudi Arabia, where women are treated horribly.”
They treat the men worse
I share your disdain of the hookup culture. But the liberalism you believe in has contributed to it. Specifically the welfare state has made it easier for women to reject good beta providers for alpha players. This is especially true in the lower classes where women only associate with hypermasculine bad boys.
I understand your feelings on racism. But even if the culture is fully PC there will be other types of hidden racism. For example studies have shown Asian males have the most difficult time in the American sexual market place. Also beta and omega white males have an unspoken, institutional type of racism directed against them.
Or even spoken as such. In this blog, mono-ethnic people have been described as “boring” and “limited”. No joke.
Please attribute your remarks, Novaseeker. I was the one who said that.
Secondly,
It wasn’t even in this blog. It was here:
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/10/15/love-and-race-in-modern-america/#comment-2847
Thirdly,
I apologized for the comment and you accepted my apology here:
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2009/10/15/love-and-race-in-modern-america/#comment-3054
Bringing it up over and over again and dragging it around the blogosphere smacks of immature retribution.
I’ve never bothered to ask, but I will here: are you a man or a woman?
Hello Alvanista!
Long time listener first time caller, love the show, despite your (shaming language) this, and your (shaming language) that, I’m really a big fan.
I’ve been “lurking” on the MRA blogs now for quite a while and I’m happy to inform you that yours is the first one I’ve ever commented on. I’ve done this for two reasons: I’ve been meaning to comment on many of the blogs for a while, and I’m also an economic liberal and generally sensible person who believes this bullshit about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps doesn’t really work when they stole your shoes and cut off your feet.
That being said I do want to stress that I believe wholeheartedly in personal responsibility and hard work, they are fundamental aspects of being a successful person, but I live in the real world, where we are not all about to inherit the family business.
I’m coming to you now from a unique perspective and one that I hope will help y’all in your myriad discussions concerning, I hope, not only men’s issues, but life issues also. I am a reformed Alpha male.
Now I know what you’re thinking…psyche, I don’t know, but let’s approach this from the angle which is that I’m telling the truth, which I am, and things will go a lot smoother…psyche.
Good times, psyche, you could probably date me by that expression.
I’m 30 years old. In my lifetime I’ve slept with between 80-100 women (no hookers obviously), hooked up with possibly 500 though that could be an underestimate, and have done things to women within hours of meeting them that many in the MRA community will most likely have to keep in the spank bank for the rest of their lives. These are the facts, am I proud of this, no comment, I don’t believe in assigning value judgments to the things that happen to me, or the things that I’ve done, as these can be illusions, that beautiful girl you scored with could give you herpes, that DUI could help you get control of your life and lead you to new heights?
I’ve literally had just about every experience in relation to women you could imagine, been the beta, been the alpha, the omega, the man flavored pork product, the son, the brother, all of it, I’d say I’ve been a lucky man but I won’t say that, I’ll only say I’m an experienced man.
When I say that I’m a reformed Alpha what I mean is that I was gifted, or cursed, with an extraordinary genetic package which combined with extraordinary opportunity resulted, for a time, in a my being a daisy cutter dropped into a group of willing, possibly naive, “feminist” women. And for a long time I rode that shock wave, convinced that my success with women was an indicator of my inherent worth, an indicator that surely I could never fail at life because, duh, no guy that’s successful with women is unsuccessful in life, right, duh?
Like Icarus, I flew too close to the sun, and came crashing down to earth a broken man…a beta man. My confidence had left me, I gained weight, became scared, sought approval like a bulldog done bad. It took me seven lean years to get back to par and I’m more solidly a man because of it. What happens to a man that touches the sun?
If he lives, he’s been burned, but he’s better for it and he’ll make sure to keep his distance the next time.
What lead me to the MRA/MGTOW community was a combination of two crazy women, not an oxymoron because some of them, some, are perfectly sane. An LTR who I realized didn’t love me so much as love the idea of being married into my family, and a sister, a really bright formerly beautiful sister, who has gone so far off the rails of sanity with her “feminism” that I now think she’s a crazy person and I hate to say it, I no longer give a shit about, which is good because in all of her self righteousness she forgot that it was her that was responsible for her actions and is likely to be dead soon from her alcoholism and generally toxic attitude, she’s already had cancer at 33, my grandparents are both 90 and deliver, not get, meals on wheels.
Like a man I’d always assumed it was my fault, that I was doing something wrong, that anything that happened to me involving women was an entirely self inflicted wound, that women were perfect, that they were all like my mother, and incapable, constitutionally, of doing any wrong.
“Nuts!”
The truth is, that women have become nightmares, and men, in their perennial effort to please women, have let their dreams become reality. I believe that a strong majority of men are inherently kind, just, and believe there is a purpose and a reason for our existence on this gathering of stardust known as earth, that men, in general, believe in ideals, and want people to be happy. Thus we were betrayed.
We showed weakness and were exploited, it happens all the time, but has likely never happened in such a collective manner in the course of human history.
It is a sad day when I wake up and realize all of my assumptions, all of those intense feelings, were lies, it is a happy day when I wake up and realize I am free, I am not a victim, and entirely responsible for my own well being…I only have to let go of the sad day I woke up to.
Anyway, enough platitudes, time to hit the nitty gritty. I abhor racism but I also realize it is a part of the ongoing battle any intelligent person has between their emotions and their intellect. Intellectually, racism is a reprehensible lizard brain spit back to an unenlightened era, emotionally I went to public schools and was terrorized by young, fatherless, emotionally unstable black males in my youth…and boy howdy, it’s hard to get rid of your emotions. It’s natural, and entirely logical, to fear that which you do not understand, and fear is an emotion, which, to a certain degree cannot be helped, but that doesn’t get one off the hook, the greatest aspiration a man can have is to conquer his emotions, to be able to react to any situation dispassionately is the true test of a man, to be not influenced by lust nor fear nor avarice nor poverty, upon that, you will be a man my friend.
So overall, the MRA community should adamantly reject racism but realize that some who are racist have visceral emotional reasons for being so, and should be counseled and offered understanding because of said affliction. If they’re just narrow minded assholes cut em off, period, who needs em?
Anyway, I hope y’all enjoyed my convoluted introduction, I hope to post further. A.
@Cless,
I’ll be responding to this post over at my blog early next week. No time right now.
Hope to see a comment or two from you. I’ll come back here with a link when it’s up.
http://thebetarevolution.blogspot.com/2009/10/definition-for-racism-or-silence-alarms.html
Well I guess I’m one of those “racists” tenuously connected to the MRA-sphere through links on Whiskey, In Male Fide, and Roissy (amongst others).
I think that about says it all though. The most prominent MRA bloggers are also HBD “racists”. It comes with the territory of honesty that motivated their MRA-belief.
MRAers were willing to divest themselves from the PC rhetoric of female supremacy. It’s not a far leap to do so in the realm of race too.
And it’s not junk science. That’s absurd.
http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2009/05/quick-easy-to-understand-primer-on.html
There is no such object as “racism”, the entire category is the melding of two intellectually bankrupt streams of thought: Marxism and Freudianism. I grew up in a neighborhood where over 50 percent of those aged under 25 were black. There was an open expression, commonly phrased, “a n-word and a white gettin in a fight, n-word don’t win we all jump in”.
Why did that occur? To exercise power in the social sphere of influence. Is that remarkable? Nope, it’s part and parcel of life.
Is the very real phenomenon of white flight racism, too? See, the problem is that when you increasingly expand a definition to describe any outcome you dislike you render the term meaningless. Something that is used to describe everything winds up describing nothing. As Nietzsche put it “call like things alike”.
Let’s take Southern segregation. Why did it exist? For one reason, and one reason only, which is to keep black men from having sex with white women. Poor southern whites understood that white/black sexuality would, generally, consist of black men outcompeting white men for white women. So, southern segregation was just another example of male sexual competition, which takes place outside of any racial context, too.
Principle of parsimony: reduce explanations to the least number of variables possible.
People crave power, and they will use whatever tools necessary to fight for expansion of their power. Sometimes ethnic background is such a useful tool, but it is only one among many, none of which is more or less moral than the others.
Let me clarify. I am not saying that
A) America is no longer “racist”
B) America was never “racist”
But
C) There is no such thing as racism, period
Why? Because any phenomena that can get classed as “racism” can be better explained by variables that have a much better and more generalizable explanatory value.
Prime, do you think that racists today can hide behind HBD?
That’s the main flaw of HBD — it invites many genuine racists who hide behind the veneer of science. How can we tell the racist hiding behind HBD and the person merely interested dispassionate discussion of science? We often can’t, but, it’s safe to say that 90% of the people who discuss HBD stuff on blogs and such are the equivalent of the sort of people who were up in arms about desegregation decades ago. They merely get a kick out of saying that blacks are dumber than whites in so many ways.
People like Richard Hoste and sybril are undeniable, vile racists and hatred towards minorities oozes out of everything they write. Yet both of them can claim “we’re just discussing statistics!” and “it’s natural to distrust people different from you!”
You can’t say “nigger” but you can certainly say that blacks have score lower than whites on IQ tests over and over again. Where does mere interest in science end and actual racism begin? Because it must at some point.
Thus, HBD is, often, a cover for actual racism. But it’s hilarious that you of all people are writing about this. Weren’t you the one who wrote couple of weeks ago a post advicing others on how one should talk to blacks if one had to (because blacks shouldn’t be communicated with unless one is forced to!)?
The question of whether or not those associated with The Spearhead should drop the racism/HBD-obsession is a practical one anyway: you will only gain traction with the Stormfront/Amren crowd and will end up alienating many others who might be drawn to the MRM.
Abe, I thought you went away. What’s up with this comment? Luckily I came back here to check, or I would have missed it.
You think the main flaw with HBD is that it invites ‘racists’ to hide behind the veneer of science? I call paranoia on this one, and an obvious lack of interest in anthropology/psychology/sociology.
The thing is, I, unlike yourself and Alvein, am not in the business of circumscribing ‘bad’ attitudes. I don’t particularly enjoy interacting with the openly racist, but I can take a step back and wonder what led them to such opinions without assigning them as “evil” or “vile”.
That said, while you may find it hilarious that I would write such a post, I invite you to actually read it, and comment on its thread instead of making some potshot over here.
My relationship with blacks is a little more complicated than was described in that one post, yet, of course, being the good little inference-maker that you are, think that my ideas there make me somehow, uhh, how you say, racisht?
I apologize for any malevolence above, I haven’t gotten any in a few days.
In other words, Prime, you have sympathy for the racists. You understand. You know where they’re coming from.
Never mind how hard you try to discredit the reaction, but at some point “vile” and “bigot” and “racist” and “disgusting” become valid reaction terms civilized can use against the sabril/Richard Hoste scientific racist crowd.
And, just to reiterate again, THIS GUY WROTE A BLOG CALLED “How to talk to black people (if you must.)”
He’s exactly what Cless is describing.
Ugh, Prime. That’s nasty. I just read that other article. You speak about black people as if we are aliens from another planet.
I’m thoroughly turned off by the whole thing now. Won’t be back, don’t worry. Between the misogynists and the racists, MRA is dead-on-arrival.
Sorry, Cless. Was nice talking to you, though.
Wow.
Bury your head in the sand, B&G, bury your head in the sand. The world is a very ugly place, and unless you want to play identity politics yourself and hang only with movements that flatter your own ego whilst ignoring the evil that they do, you really can’t avoid getting bitten by it. HBD says nothing about any individual, just groups and even then it tends to apply more to the extremes of the statistical distributions. The fucked up thing is I really think in the grand scheme of things HBD is true, but mostly irrelevent and for daring to have people who *gasp* look at inconvenient truths and dare to speak them, one of the few genuinely needed political movements might never happen.
Please say a prayer, we will all need it.
I don’t know about Prime being racist, abe, haven’t really read that much of his stuff.
All I know is that many people who do believe HBD tend to be of liberal or libertarian dispositions. If you demonize them, then you give legitimacy to Storm Front. And if you want to see a white identity party again, I suggest you look at the BNP to see what that looks like- while it’s not as ugly as the KKK of yesteryear (even the real racists tend to have mellowed a BIT) its still a horrible nightmare for minorities or at most a recipe for separatism.
Abe, I grew up in a neighborhood where the majority of those under 30 were black. The attitudes you describe are a shadow of what I heard regularly.
Racism IS about power. What so-called anti-racists get wrong is that blacks do have real power, so, yes, blacks are far more racist than any other group in the US. The attitudes you see are not emotional, they are rational responses to experiences with the majority of black people. There are about a third of blacks in the US with whom I would willingly engage with socially. The other two-thirds I just want as far away from as possible.
If that attitude is racist then racism is no big deal. The problem is that the appellation of “racist” has been so abused that the proper response today is “who cares”.
I should also point out that it is a point of pride in the African-American community that the welfare state is a massive net transfer of social resources from whites to blacks. Such transfers bring feelings of empowerment? Why to you think blacks use the n-word? Because it is a privilege, something that blacks can use with impunity that would get whites, in any social context, shunned.
It is my personal intuition that a majority of blacks in the US would derive more pleasure from transferring one unit of resource from whites than from acquiring ten similar units of resources from a market transaction.
You could go the other way. Point out that gender-based AA makes less sense than race-based AA. After all, black people get black children, white people get white children, but women get sons, and men get daughters, too. So racial oppression and privilege can be handed down along generations, gender oppression and privilege can’t. Also, black men in particular suffer under the social-conservative pressure to marry.
I full heartedly agree with the author of this article. I too am a leftist MRA, and I know how difficult it is to have to be put into such a precarious and thankless position by both sides. But I’m sure that others like myself exist out there.
Keep up the good work!
Are you people real? This article and the “discussion” that follows is the most stupid pile of whiny crap I’ve ever read. The irony in the comment “don’t shift the blame to other’s, that’s a feminist tactic” is so rich. It’s like you people don’t even read what you’re writing.
How in the world do any of you manage to maintain any relationship with the opposite gender? Do you all hate your mothers?
I finally understand what the fedora meme is all about. You guys have to be aged either 15 – 19 or 60 – 90.
Get out of your mom’s basement and get some fresh air.
Seriously. I’ve been reading posts on here for 30 minutes now because it’s such a train wreck.