For the edification of the Cless Alvein-reading public, I’m going to describe my ideal woman, from least important to most important criteria.
Race/skin color: Although I blog often about racial issues as they pertain to the gender situation, this is the least important category by far. I’m only listing it as an item here because the topic gets so much discussion. There are women of all races I’d consider myself immensely privileged to date and marry. That said, I’m slightly more attracted to dark skin than light, and find dark-skinned Asians and blacks especially attractive. I’d say that my ideal woman is half-black, half-Irish, an “island girl” who split her formative years between Ireland and the Caribbean. Sanaa Lathan with Dolores O’Riordan‘s accent. Wow… Of course, combining Sanaa and Dolores in any fashion would break the universe in Large Hardo Hadron Collider fashion, since the world wouldn’t be able to handle that much beauty.
Appearance: I’m a major fan of the “girl-next-door” look— a pony tail, T-shirt, jeans and sandals are fine by me. No need to wear makeup. I like wavy, raven-black hair and large pupils. I prefer small-to-medium, high and perky breasts. There’s no need, in my mind, for women to be super-thin. Strong but not visible abs are ideal. A little bit of belly fat is beautiful (her stomach should be flat when she stands but soft when she sits). Ideal height is 5’8 and ideal weight is 140-145 pounds, with substantial musculature. My preferred age is 23-24, but my desired “age gap” will probably increase as I get older. (I’m 26.)
Politics: Bush Republicans are out. Rand-ite objectivists are out. Racists and homophobes are out. For libertarians and conservative-leaning independents, I tend to take them on a case-by-case basis. However, I’d prefer a woman whose politics are generally liberal, but more pragmatic, somewhat more centrist, and less hopelessly idealistic than mine.
Intelligence: This is obviously extremely important, but the kind of intelligence is more crucial than the amount of it. My IQ’s 152, but 125 is enough for me. Ideal is probably 135-140, but creativity, curiosity, and drive are substantially more important than raw intelligence. Since I’m looking for a complement rather than a twin, I’d rather marry a literature or philosophy major than another math/science person.
Ambition: She should have hobbies or interests about which she is passionate– sports, political activism, spirituality, musical instruments– and she should constantly be striving to improve herself. She should have an existence that is independent of mine. Her level of career ambition can be anywhere from very modest– if she wants to be a housewife, it’s not a dealbreaker as long as she’s an active housewife– to extremely dedicated, but selfish yuppies (e.g. investment bankers and “biglaw” lawyers) are out. If she’s going to be working more than 40 hours per week, it should be for something worth believing in– fighting poverty, social justice, the arts, education– and not for status or money as an end in itself.
Past experience: This is an area where I’m somewhat unforgiving. Any one-night stands are a deal-breaker, as is anything that smells of sex with an “alpha”. I really dislike such men and view it as disloyalty for a woman to sleep with one. I’d prefer a woman to have had 2-4 loving relationships before me, with no sex outside of those, and for all of those relationships to be conclusively over.
Religion/spirituality: This is crucial. I will only marry a woman of faith. I’ve actually turned down an almost-ideal woman (“off-by-one”) because she was an atheist. I could date, sleep with, and even raise children with an atheist. But I don’t want to face aging and death (mine, or hers) with one and, in my mind, there needs to be a damn good reason for marriage to be anything less than “unto death”. Her specific religion (Christian, Jewish, Buddhist) is not nearly as important as the depth of her spirituality. I want someone who will force me to explore new aspects of life, myself, and her. So spirituality is a major turn-on. On the other hand, theological intolerance and conservative politics are dealbreakers. A Buddhist or a Friend (Quaker) would probably be best.
Dolores is so striking, isn’t she? I was watching the video to “Salvation” yesterday and she’s absolutely mesmerizing.
But Irish accents are a bit unfair. It’s very difficult to judge someone’s character when they speak so beautifully.
As for intelligence, I think you’re kidding yourself. I made a perfect score on the verbal portion of the SAT and bombed (relatively speaking) on the math. But I’m still great at math. Once you get over 120, the “math genes” are usually present. No getting around that.
Oh, make no mistake about it: mathematical intelligence is a major plus, not a drawback. All else being equal, the “math genes” are desired.
I’m just saying that I’d rather have someone whose strengths are different from mine. If you could break IQ down into “math” and “verbal” components, then I’d personally take the 125M/150V complement over the 150M/125V, although 150M/150V would be ideal.
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Yeah, my husband and I split that way. Although we’re both good at both, our strengths are different (mine verbal, his nonverbal). However, both of our children are off-the-charts nonverbal so there are no guarantees. Although I must say, now that my son FINALLY speaks his vocabulary tests at 84th percentile. So he’s still advanced in the verbal area. It’s like he soaked up language for 4 years and then started speaking all at once.
Am I defeating my own point here? I tend to do that…
Her specific religion (Christian, Jewish, Buddhist) is not nearly as important as the depth of her spirituality.
I was thinking about this this morning and I agree with you there. I actually dated men from different religions and we got along well as long as they were as religious as I was. If they were too ambivalent or too dogmatic I was turned off.
I’ve seen mixed-religion marriages and they seem to work out well if this dynamic is followed. Even if the people have the same religion, it causes problems if the depth is different.
“My IQ’s 152” – “his is crucial. I will only marry a woman of faith. I’ve actually turned down an almost-ideal woman because she was an atheist”
that is an oxymoron right there =/
k,
Do you think faith (not necessarily organized religion, as that wasn’t what he was addressing) and intelligence are incompatible?
well, he specifically mentions some ‘organized religions’
but, to answer your question: yes they are.
Faith is the confident belief or trust in something for which there is no logical proof or material evidence.
There is no place for ‘faith’ in the 21th century, we have moved on.
Are you European? Just curious.
yes
Oh, okay. Just sounded like something a European would say.
I agree, but I’m biased, I am an atheist, living in a sea of the religious who deny global warming, think the earth is 6000 years old, man and dinosaurs co-existed, and that evolution is a lie.
That’s quite a specific set of requirements. That’s fine for now because you’re 26. I would think, though, that you may need to be more flexible on some aspects of your list of preferred qualities — you may find some of them more relevant than others for relationships of quality (e.g., on politics, Jim Carville seems to have a perfectly happy marriage with a conservative republican woman).
“I prefer small-to-medium, high and perky breasts. ”
Yayy! It’s nice to know some men like these. I think that smaller breast maintain better and stay perkier a lot longer and I would prefer perky over big.
All men like them. I mean, have you ever met a man who didn’t like breasts?
Some men prefer larger breasts, and some prefer smaller ones, but we like them as long as they’re sexy, which perky A-Bs certainly are. Women tend to be tougher critics on their bodies than men are.
I had an absolutely beautiful girlfriend who wore an A-cup and was very insecure about her size. I didn’t get it. How could I not like them? They were breasts and, much more importantly, they were hers!
It genetics, size, and age. Not just size alone. My boobs so far have stayed perky, after this baby gets here and is done breast feeding, I don’t know how that is going to turn out.
Yayy! It’s nice to know some men like these. Don’t most men like that?
D’s and E’s look good (or, are prominent at least) under clothes and are often made to look very good in skin magazines (fake breasts, flattering poses, airbrushing) so I think a lot of inexperienced men consider those the ideal and aren’t aware of the quantity/quality trade-off that affects real breasts in the porn-star range. The nicest breasts (naked) tend to be small-medium ones that vanish in casual slothing.
Real breasts, naked? I like perky As and Bs a lot. I think the average man likes perky C-D, but would rather have perky B than saggy D.
Maybe it’s me, but there’s something decidedly unfeminine about small breasts. It doesn’t look right, and I’d argue that it’s akin to have sex with a man that has long-hair and feminine features in lieu of a real woman with D cups.
And thanks to modern plastic surgery, we can fix the sagginess of those D cups…
There is nothing unfeminine about small breasts. I’ve never seen a man, unless he’s extremely overweight, with even an A cup size. And yes, there is modern plastic surgery, but who wants to risk that are pay money for something so extensive for perky breasts? I’d rather have them naturally. Also, I’ve seen plenty of masculine looking women, just with larger breasts. There’s more to a woman’s femininity than her cup size.
It’s good that there are men who do appreciate A and B cups. But I think in the same way blonds are pushed down mens throats, so are huge breasts.
There’s is definetly nothing wrong with them, though.
“The nicest breasts (naked) tend to be small-medium ones that vanish in casual slothing.”
I agree!
islandgirl: Which of the islands are you from?
Lol. I’m not. It’s kind of an inside joke. To make a long story short, when I lived in NYC, people from various islands would come up to me on the street or at work and ask me what island I’m from. They thought they’d found someone relatable. Also, my managers would always send me on castings that called for those backgrounds. They would say, “ok, today your Trinidadian”.
So people would tease me about it. Plus, I looove island culture – reggae, calypso, dub, ect.
I wish though. People from the islands have such a great “vibe”.
I comment sometimes on agagonds blog, that’s how I found yours.
small breasts do not automatically equal perky.
I used to have perky D’s. Sure, that’s always popular. Unfortunately, my gravity-defying days are over. LOL.
I’m thinking about having them reduced. My mother-in-law just had hers taken down to a C-cup and I’m soooo jealous. I jog and — let’s just say — it’s a decided handicap. Drags me down on push-ups, too. The sheer weight of them makes me feel like I have a barbell strapped to my chest.
I’m going to try losing weight some more first, though. I’ve gone from an 38K (no, that’s not a typo) down to a 32G that way. I think I could maybe get them down to a 32DD again that way, which would be okay. I’d like to avoid surgery.
They’re not actually saggy but I’m wondering what they’re going to look like in 20 years. Perish the thought!
I assume the 38K was due to pregnancy and breastfeeding, right? I’ve heard that it’s common to gain 4-6 sizes during that process.
I don’t know anything about breasts or surgery, but I’d say it’s probably best to wait on a reduction until after you’re conclusively finished (e.g. tubes tied or vasectomy) having children.
I think implants and enlargements are ridiculous, but that most large-breasted women would benefit from a reduction and lift after age 35-45. Not only are pendulous breasts unattractive, but they’re very hard on the back.
And the bras are hideously expensive.
Yeah, the 38K was at 1 month post-pregnancy. They blew up like balloons.
Great blog, btw!
I want a girl to have at least a B, after that it matters less to me. A girl would have to be extraordinary for me to date her if she had As.
Okay, time to tell you what other people have been telling me — you are not normal or typical!
You are an outlier. Most men are not like you. I hope you find the good woman that you’ve been looking for, but realize that you will find women who feel insecure because they have been meeting other men who are far worse than you.
but he was kind of tough. He has specific size for boobs, a weight and height requirement that he is seeking. He also has an age range, which fails into the normal man category of younger. He is pretty picky.
[…] Cless Alvein’s ideal woman, part 1 of ε_0 « Alvanista alvanista.wordpress.com/2009/10/23/cless-alveins-ideal-woman-part-1-of-%CE%B5_0 – view page – cached For the edification of the Cless Alvein-reading public, I’m going to describe my ideal woman, from least important to most important criteria. — From the page […]
and there are tons of women out there with with pendulous heavy breasts that are hurting their backs. so many women with heavy sagging breasts cannot afford to get such procedures done to improve themselves in that sense. 😦
Any one-night stands are a deal-breaker, as is anything that smells of sex with an “alpha”. I really dislike such men and view it as disloyalty for a woman to sleep with one. I’d prefer a woman to have had 2-4 loving relationships before me, with no sex outside of those, and for all of those relationships to be conclusively over.”
Then keep dreaming because unless you are psychic or you have monitored the lives of women you don’t know then you will never find a pure person.
We live on earth not in heaven and there is no such thing as purity.
Men and women have sex with people, that’s life.
And that includes whatever they chose to do
(one night stands, orgies, 3somes, etc…)
Women can never be mother mary in this world.
But men certainly do call women whores when they are sleeping around themselves.
I’m pretty judgmental of a woman’s past when it comes to the person I’m going to marry.
I definitely do not sleep around. I’d rather be celibate for over a year than have sex outside of a relationship– and I can say this, because I’ve made exactly that choice on multiple occasions.
I found this a little strange Cless. So if Sanaa Lathan stopped you on the street one down and asked you to sleep with her, you would say no?
I’d ask her out for coffee and get to know her a little bit. I don’t see any value in having sex outside of a relationship. If the sex is bad, there’s no point. If it’s good, then I’ll just be pissed off if I can’t get a relationship with her.
Much of Sanaa’s attractiveness is in her ladylike presence and demeanor. If she outright propositioned me, that would be lost.
I’m slightly more attracted to dark skin than light, and find dark-skinned Asians and blacks especially attractive. I’d say that my ideal woman is half-black, half-Irish, an “island girl” who split her formative years between Ireland and the Caribbean.”
Like I said before, the only reason white men will like black women is if the black woman is mixed, or if she acts or look white.
Pathetic, the same old crap.
I said that was one possible manifestation of my ideal, not the only type of woman I could be attracted to. I also said that skin color is a relatively unimportant factor.
I like black women because their skin is beautiful, and I like Irish women because I’m part Irish myself. So a mix of the two would be extremely compelling.
Meh. I am part Irish too (along with some Italian, which must explain why I like black women) and I have to say that Irish women do not do much for me. Plus, not really like I have much connection anymore with the Irish in Ireland anyway.
Another solid post Cless. A few posts that would interest me would be one talking about foreign women, foreign women living in U.S., and your thoughts about them as with regards to dating. Also, another cool post would be about the importance of money for happiness.
What does it mean to “act white”? Please elaborate.
I like black women because their skin is beautiful, and I like Irish women because I’m part Irish myself. So a mix of the two would be extremely compelling.”
You just repeated the typical white man’s ideal of black women, you only like them if they are “mixed with something” you hate pure african black women because they don’t look white enough for you.
To be irish is to be from Ireland, nothing more.
Sick of people acting like irish is something special, its just another nationality.
No. “Pure African black women” are beautiful also.
Yeah, you’re totally atypical. But because I like qualifying myself and going through checklists:
1) I’m of South Asian descent with mid-tone skin colour, about the complexion of a double double coffee.
2) I have a high-maintenance look, so I fail here. I love to play with my makeup, though it’s subtle except for the lip colour (usually red or plum), I’m 5’9″, too thin for you, but the breasts are too big.
3) Non-partisan philosopher.
4) Our IQs are similar. Mine is slightly higher, though it’s meaningless by all relevant counts.
5) I spent ten years playing classical piano. Lazy, but ambitious. I want to go into academia. Even though my GPA is stellar I never get anything done on time and I sleep for a remarkable portion of the day.
6) I’ve slept with an Alpha. Checkered sexual history, but by no means worse than most of the female population. Maybe on par. Currently dating a beta virgin.*
7) Not religious, but spiritual and holder of eccentric mystical beliefs. Also, a philosophy major, which I think is like religion if it had intellectual integrity.
*We don’t know if he’s a virgin for some complicated reasons, but from what he can remember there may have only been one girl, and his mind was a tabula rasa when I met him.
2) I have a high-maintenance look, so I fail here. I love to play with my makeup, though it’s subtle except for the lip colour (usually red or plum).
Same here. Although that’s perhaps because we both have light-ish skin and dark hair.
seriously….lol
maybe bc your IQ is so big lol
please save this, frame it, put it under your bed, and look at it again in 5 years.
I am a retard!
I am also posting from 66.127.175.58.
I’m a sarcastic, malevolent bitch posting from 98.237.252.118.
Your ideal woman list is very specific. I guess it is good to know exactly what you want. The “girl next door” look is great, but typically black women aren’t thought of as the girl next door, even with the pony tail, jeans, and no make up.
I can see how politics and faith play a major role in the choices of people you date. I’m an atheist, if I were single I probably wouldn’t date a Christian who was devoutly religious, and demanded I change my religion for him. My husband is also an atheist, but it doesn’t seem to matter in my case as we have the same views. I am a hard core liberal to the bone, but I have dated Republicans, it didn’t end well though 🙂 Of course I live in Texas, most here are Republicans, so if I excluded them from my dating pool, I would have been virtually dateless in my single days.
In terms of intelligence, do you plan to do a standardized test for each and every woman you date? I didn’t know my IQ for years, my parents think IQ tests are biased and arbitrary, and not a true sign of intelligence. They didn’t want me doing school work based upon my perceived intelligence.
You also said you want someone with ambition, but not too much ambition because you don’t want them working more than 40 hours a week. I have found in my marriage my husband is the same way, but you can’t have it both ways. When I went back to school and was working full time, he felt neglected, and when I was in a leadership development program at work and working on average about 60 to 80 hours a week he wasn’t crazy about that either. He felt I was working to stay away from him. I was working so I could move up and make more money for the both of us. I guess it is a male thing, but men like to take that role on. My husband works a lot of hours at times, and doesn’t see his double standard when he works an 80 hour week vs. when I do. I have turned down jobs to keep him happy, due to the travel those jobs involved. So I have had to compromise myself professionally. But marriage is full of compromises. As I told my husband, you can’t always have your cake and eat it too. Now that I am pregnant, he is excited I plan to take a year off from work and focus on raising our child. After that I plan to go into teaching full time, which isn’t all that profitable, but hopefully more rewarding in other ways.
In terms of sexual history, me and my husband like to pretend we were both virgins before we met. Obviously we might not be all that innocent, but it keeps things in perspective and allows us to focus on the present instead of the past.
Is compromise an option for you? I’m glad my husband was able to “settle” with me. I am a year and a half older (yeah he got an old woman), he wasn’t much into large breasts until he met me (contrary to popular belief small boobs can sag as well. Your sag factor is contributed to both genetics, size, and age, when I think of small saggy breasts I always think of Coco from Fame, the 80s version, not the new one, and she was probably an A cup), and we didn’t have IQ tests to determine if we were intellectually compatible. I’ve been with him 10 years.
Black girls can be ‘the girl next door’ type. I’m a perfect example. So are Gabriel Union, Sana Lathan, Lauren London, ect. I think that is attainable for him.
In regards to small boobs, I think that belief is true. It is rare that they sag, though there are exceptions. If they do, it takes a lot longer. Small boobs don’t get credit, let us at least have that.lol
Most men, in particular non black men do not think of any of those women as girl next door types. My husband thought of me as that, but many men who approached me in my single days thought I was a sexual deviant open to any and everything all because of my skin color. I’m the girl who back in college wore overalls and a pony tail (It was the 90s, overalls were stylish back then, scary I know), yet I was just an undercover freak ready to work a pole and do whatever. I once had a old white man once to dance for him because he liked the way I moved. I was at the mall, I was walking, and I was wearing my converse, a pair of jeans, and I guess the fitted tee was sexy, but I wasn’t trying to be sexy.
Hmm, I just don’t get that reaction from guys of any race. Most people truly see me as the girl next door or all-american. I think a lot has to do with my body type. I am fairly thin with smallish bust and not a big butt.
That look has it’s ups and downs. On one hand, people try to defeminize you because you are not extremely curvy, but you’re treated with respect.
I’m thin, but I’ve always been a DD, so I guess curvy. I guess big boobs invites pervs. I’m not thin now, I have a huge belly due to being 5 months pregnant, so I don’t get hit on like I used to.
Big boobs does invite pervs. They’d hit on me even when I was 9 months pregnant and wearing a wedding ring. Some people just have no shame.
I see the Island or exotic black girls always getting the love. The regular american black girls are left in the dust, again.
The island ones tend to be more open to dating white men than the american ones.
I don’t necessarily think so, there are lots of american black women who come to my blog as well as others who are open to dating white or other races of men.
I’ve dated nothing but non black men.
sure the internet brings out these kind of people so it may seem to you like thats how things are in real life, but in general B4 is right, non american black girls are MUCH more open to dating outside their race than american black girls
and a good deal of american men prefer foreign women anyways, so these “hang ups” you refer to can usually be applied to all american women, not just black women.
but do you think that is due to the fact white men or white people in general have this perception that american blacks hate them due to history?
When I was in college I would make friends with white guys who were trying to friend me for the sole purpose of dating. I had no clue these guys were interested in me until months after being around each other and then tell me after months of establishing a friendship they wanted something more, which then got tricky because I have a hard time with the whole dating friends. They were scared I would reject them specifically because they thought I wouldn’t be interested due to race.
no. most white people naively think that everybody in the world loves them. thats why they always leave their front doors unlocked. hehe
anyways, some guys (and girls) just are a bit nervous to date outside their race, for whatever the reason. regardless, and this comes from experience, white guys who like black women will have a much easier time with a foreign black woman than an american women.
Most white guys don’t mind this either, since foreign women (not just black, but foreign women of all races) are usually classier and more feminine than american women anyways. and having a sexy foreign accent doesnt hurt either.
“Most white guys don’t mind this either, since foreign women (not just black, but foreign women of all races) are usually classier and more feminine than american women anyways. and having a sexy foreign accent doesnt hurt either.”
The grass is always greener~
I don’t think there’s a difference in the averages, but foreign women from privileged backgrounds (who are the ones you’re biased in favor of meeting, here and abroad) tend to be more refined. Growing up, both the boys and girls were taught how to behave properly, and given a “we don’t do that” chat about dating badboys and sluts. Whereas in American white culture, you have women who come from $300k+ households who have the same tastes in men as trailer trash.
I just think there is a perception that non American black women have less “hang ups” than american women. Some folks believe what they see on television is the typical american black women, that or we all hate white people, which isn’t true.
Good luck! There are very few women with that kind of IQ and most of them become slutty because of their immensely easy access to high status men.
I wish you luck! You could have a tough time in America.
In East Asia on the other hand, there are lots of slim, 125IQ girls who don’t sleep around and like nice, responsible men (their words not mine). You might really enjoy Korea or Japan.
Who the f*ck do you think cares? LMAO
PS This way, maybe you should turn homo
PSS You make me sick thinking the awesome character Cless has his name stolen by a beta imbecile like you.
PSSS Mint was blonde, He was red-blond and they were both white and lived in a Nordic-themed world, delusional nerd.
I know this is going to sound rude…but…LOL. How did you figure out how high your IQ is? In case you didn’t know, those online IQ tests are just bogus (and most IQ tests, for that matter, if not all – yeah, that applies also to the ones you’d take at a psychiatrist’s office).
They may be efficient when it comes to determining whether a person is above or below average intelligence, or if that person is good at specific fields – and that’s about it. IQ tests are inaccurate cause they don’t test your ability to think in general. Ever heard of the theory of multiple intelligences? No? Didn’t think so…
Moreover, your score on an IQ test has a lot to do with practise – and a good amount of luck. If you are familiar with such tests you are going to score a lot higher than a person that isn’t.
To sum it up, IQ test results are too inaccurate to be used as a proof of intelligence.
Of course, if you were truly intelligent, you’d have known all of the above. I mean, come on…Don’t overestimate yourself!
People like you are funny. Thanks for the laughs!