This is a continuation of discussion at Abagond’s blog: why is it so uncommon for white men to marry black women? Why do black women seem to be less desired, on the dating market, than other women? Are these women undesirable? This explanation is extremely unlikely, anecdotally speaking. (Gorgeous black women have the same issue; for beautiful women, they have long single spells.) Moreover, the OkCupid study controlled for facial attractiveness and this correlation was still found. Is it racism? Possibly, but it’s unlikely to be a complete explanation, since 85% of adults under 50 approve of interracial marriage.
Here’s a radical hypothesis: WM/BW pairings are rare not because of widespread male racism, but because the men who tend to be most egalitarian in their dating preferences, although there are a large number of them, tend to be less assertive in general. I’ll invoke those someday-to-be-banned dating buzzwords– alpha and beta— yet again. High-beta men tend to be monogamous and quality-focused, sometimes to a fault. In other words, they’re great husbands and fathers, but often very selective. This selectivity is, in general, good for the cause of racial equality for the obvious reason: highly selective people couldn’t afford to be racist, even if they wanted to be. An example of this seen in the challenging arena of high-IQ dating (which is the thrice-distilled essence of the high-beta predicament). A large proportion of the very smart (140+ IQ) people I know are in interracial relationships. Those in the center of the bell curve can afford to be a bit shallow, filtering on all kinds of relatively useless metrics. On the other hand, if you’re in the tail, you’re a “niche” dater and the number of eligible partners you’ll meet in your life may be in the single digits. You can’t exclude anyone good on such silly criteria.
Being selective, beta males are never skirt-chasers. In fact, we make far fewer approaches than the desperate gammas and the whorish alphas. Among such men, we’re often invisible. Some high betas (such as myself, a fairly assertive high-beta) will ask women out, and will make first moves, but we never “chase”. We’re not into “challenge” or “hard-to-get”; we prefer the above-board, straightforward approach. If a woman is not as above-board as we are, we tend to assume that she’s not interested and move on. Luckily for black women, they tend to be much more above-board than their white counterparts, and this is one of the reasons why nerdy, high-beta white men like me are (quietly) falling in love with the educated, strong black woman.
On a related note to this beta predicament, women of all races have a sense that they’re “only” pursued by assholes. This is understandable, since the alphas and gammas (who are more similar to each other than to betas in their attitudes, differing only on the matter of success) tend to make 10-50 times as many approaches, even though the betas are more common. At hand is an adverse “weighting” effect, similar to what we see in online dating, where most of the people are normal, but most of the activity involves the socially defective, who spend an order of magnitude more time on the sites than the average user.
What of the “alpha” jerks? These men are assertive, but they tend to provide the wrong kind of attention, especially for black women. They tend to have a high interest in “scoring” women of other races, but their dating focus is still on white, blonde “HB10s”. Alphas are self-absorbed narcissists, concerned strongly with social status. As I’ve said before, a man who is not obsessed with psychosocial dominance (“game”) generally won’t have it. Alphas judge a woman’s value based on one criterion: how she makes him look to others (including– if not especially– his future affairs). Such men will only date a woman of another race if she bolsters the image that the man wishes to project, so they shouldn’t be considered to be desirable long-term partners.
Educated black women who are looking to date white men should forget about the alphas and gammas and pursue high betas exclusively. These men have enough of an open mind, and enough confidence, to date black women. Black women often observe that these men are inassertive, and assume that race is a major factor. I disagree. I think these men are generally shy toward women of all races, and also very selective.
However, I do believe that black women, in the US, are still underrated. In my opinion, middle-class, educated black women are among the best women to date– in addition to being beautiful and intelligent, they’re fully American, but with great values, very cultured and compassionate, and generally not spoiled. (Second-generation Asian immigrants are not far behind them, for similar reasons.) I don’t care to discuss racial averages, which are irrelevant. Among the women hitting the highest of the high notes– the only women who matter, from a marital perspective– I’d guess that fully one-third of them are black. Sadly, most beta white men haven’t figured this out yet. But those of us who have are out there.
Awww, shucks. I’m blushing now.
nice
Cless,
I’the title, the language used, the presumed stats are simply unpalatable.
You might be well intentioned but this whole topic and the way it is being led is becoming a bit problematic and just filled with unproven stats.
Black women are not desperate to date white men, I certainly have absolutely no interest. Racism plays the biggest part in black and white interactions. Period. Especially between men and women, many black women simply do not trust white men to not have underlying racist issues, especially when a person immediately says ‘I am not racist’. which is a darn near impossibility because we live in a racist society and are influenced by it from birth, heck black folk are racist against other black folk by virtue of being conditioned by institutional racism.
One would have to have lived in a vacuum to not be.
This topic keeps croppinhg up and black women keep getting asked to set their standards lower and lower and lower and now it seems white men are being banded about as some sort of prize, which they are not.
The prize is always the woman. If a man lacks the balls to go for what he wants, he should either find them or accept that he isn’t enough for that woman.
How are white men int his instant any different from black men who say black women aim too high.
You are just dressing it up in a different dinner jacket.
Like oh, here’s why we don’t ask black women out, because we are not good enough, so if you just set your standards lower we’ll date you. Maybe that’s not ur intention but that’s how it’s coming across.
And what’s with the all encompassing term ”black women’ are African women complaining? I don’t think so, are even most African American women complaining? – erm no.
Most AA women won’t even consider dating white men, becasue of their day to day interactions with white men.
How about we deal with that
And I’ve got to say this: Any woman worth her salt would and should avoid anyman who puts other women down in order to elevate her.
Are middle class white women without values? do they lack compassion?.
How is that final statement of yours not bordering on fetishising black women.
You say:
– black women have longer single spells? – says who, please prove this.
– your hypothesis that racism is not a factor quotes a poll conducted on June 4-24, 2007, interviewing just 2,388 adults nationwide.
Really, how can anyone deduce this from a poll of less than 2500!
– the other hypothesis that white men are less assertive in general (complete falsehood) If white men are less assertive, please explain slavery, explain work place bullying, explain aggressive store assisants, and the day to day in your face racism, bullying, harrassment, direct undeserved insults suffered by black women at the hands of white men
– and then this ‘However, I do believe that black women, in the US, are still underrated. In my opinion middle-class, educated black women are among the best women to date– in addition to being beautiful and intelligent, they’re fully American, but with great values, very cultured and compassionate, and generally not spoiled’
Not spoiled?, aare white women sullied now? and if they are, who dullied them.. would it not be white men?.
This is soo hard to stomach it is unreal.
Disagree strongly. Then again, I don’t think of most black people I know as “black”. Once you talk to them, they’re Bill and Sara and John. Skin color is the first thing you notice, but it’s also completely unimportant, at least in my mind. I barely think about it in my daily interactions.
Not really. I am, of course, a huge catch and a prize for any woman, but my being white has nothing to do with it.
I do ask black women out. Many black women are amazing, and I’d be a fool not to. My point is that many men are generally not assertive with women at all, regardless of race. I go into it, in more detail, here.
Honestly? There are some good white women, but within the white dating pool, there’s a severe shortage of good women. The cultural rot following no-fault divorce, Sex and the City, and the destruction of monogamy has ruined more American white women than US white men, so our surplus men are looking elsewhere.
If the sample is sufficiently random, 2300 is more than enough to get a representative sample. The problem with most polls is insufficient randomness, not sample size. A few hundred randomly selected people is actually enough to get a good sense of the actual proportion. If the sampling is good, a poll of 400 people will be within 2.5 percentage points of the actual proportion, 68% of the time, and within 5, 95% of the time.
I never said all white men are inassertive. I said that most of the decent ones tend to be a bit cautious around all women. Obviously, some white men are flaming, violent, and mean-spirited assholes, and I’m sorry that you’ve had to deal with them.
It would be mostly white men. I won’t defend “white men” as a group; as with all sufficiently large populations, some of us are pretty awful people.
The problem with most polls is insufficient randomness, not sample size.
Co-sign.
Overall there is still a very small% of interracial relationships, among all racial groups. I don’t think it’s accurate to call that racism, really, I think it’s just that many people prefer to be among their own group, feel more comfortable with that group and so on.
In terms of the specific WM/BW matchup, I think it may have to do more with different kinds of things these two are each looking for in a mate. While your observations may apply to the right end of the bell curve (where high IQ tends to make everyone, regardless of race, a relatively less attractive “niche” prospect), below that level I think that WMs don’t offer as much of what BWs are looking for, and the same in reverse. I don’t think this is racism, as the proportion of BM/WW matchups is much greater than the proportion of WM/BW matchups, while the number of WM/AW matchups is also much higher. While everyone is different, I do think that many BWs and WMs do not find each other particularly attractive relative to prospects of other races.
While your observations may apply to the right end of the bell curve (where high IQ tends to make everyone, regardless of race, a relatively less attractive “niche” prospect)
Well, obviously, Cless and I can only discuss our observations at this end of the IQ-spectrum (Cless, I’m assuming your 140+ is with the new recentered scores). I couldn’t tell you how it is for a black woman living in Podunk on the edge of poverty. Class is the biggest divider nowadays, I think.
Soul,
Chill. Have some cake. You need some. With extra chocolate.
We already know you don’t “do” white guys. LOL. Cut the rest of us some slack, okay? They can be really cute.
Soul,
I just had this funny image of you sitting at a cafe reading a book. This Simon Baker look-alike comes strolling over and points to the empty chair across from you, “Is this seat taken?” You just look up at him snootily, and then say in that classy English accent, “It is for you. And you’re blocking my light.” LOL!
And then you wonder why they’re afraid to approach us?
Side note: I bet you’re really attractive.
B&G..
you are a trip. (you know I always think of cake when I see ur name right?)
How ironic, especially since I’m heading out to chill at a cafe with a book in 5minutes.
I’d probably offer simon baker a seat before he asked me, give him a smile and bury my head back in my book. Yeah, I’m polite like that. lol
re: ur side note lol, girl, I’m an average geek…. you betta look in the mirror and see your gorgeousness staring back at you 🙂
p.s. There are no ugly people. Just people with ugly behaviours which then makes them ugly.
Thanks for the compliment. though (wink) lol now please let’s not hi jack this dudes blog with our shennanigans and mutual appreciation fest lol.
p.s. I am at present not attracted to white dudes, that could change, anything is possible. I just have to state there’s nothing wrong with white guys and I support your choice and would have a few choice words to say to anyone who so much as dared to give you grief over it.
I’m all for wholesome, loving, supportive, mutually respectful relationships in all their varied formats. 🙂 I hope to God, that is clear when I engage in these discussions.
We do tend to hijack and murder every thread we enter into, don’t we? We start off well and unassuming and then we beat them to death with muffins and éclairs.
If Simon Baker approached me I’d probably tell him the seat was taken and then offer him my lap instead. That’s the cardinal difference between us.
Oh, yes. It’s clear.
I agree.
Soul:
” – the other hypothesis that white men are less assertive in general (complete falsehood) If white men are less assertive, please explain slavery, explain work place bullying, explain aggressive store assisants, and the day to day in your face racism, bullying, harrassment, direct undeserved insults suffered by black women at the hands of white men”
Thank you Soul, that’s right.
I am tired of this same old tripe…
“Oh i’m an innocent meek and mild white man and I’m too shy to approach a black woman” Too racist is the word.
And “Less-assertive geeky white men”
Please! Is that why we had ted bundy and then white kids running around their schools shooting people up?
White men don’t approach black women because white men are AFRAID of black women. Its cowardice.
White men have spent so much time de-humanizing us, slandering us and trying to destroy us that they fear us now.
White men are not masculine in my opinon, if you are a real man why would you be afraid of a woman? Pathetic!
You weren’t afraid to rape our ancestors and beat them to a bloody pulp, so where did the “less-assertive white men” lie come from?
OH! That’s right, It comes from the “Whites are gentle doves and only black people are violent” bullcrap.
I have to keep up with these stereortypes white men create for blacks, they always invents new ones to use against us.
Erz:
I’m open to dating black women. Perhaps even black women like soul or B&G. However, you reminded me why many white men probably don’t bother.
When one is a “devil” because of things done 40 to 60 (jim crow) or 140t to 160 plus (slavery)years before you were born (men in the dating market, 20 to 45 or thereabouts), why bother to bring that kind of hatred and and distrust into your life?
I see many fine looking black women and many who are very intelligent. But even among them, how to tell the ones who don’t care if I’m white or purple from those who can never forget for one second that *some* people colored like me oppressed those colored like them many years before I was born?
Clarence…
your comment is exactly one of the reasons why I don’t date white men
We are not in an equal society. Slavery did not happen in a vaccuum and it’s legacy is living and breathing i our daily lives.
To dismiss that as something that happened 40 to 60 years ago is to be in denial. Slavery ended, racism didn’t.
It would be nice to actually listen to what people who are going through stuff are telling you, to listen to the effects rather than attempt to tell us what you think the efffects are.
Oppression is still on going, to deny that or act like it doesn’t exist or to trivialise it is completely appalling and to be in denial. It really is.
It’s like telling me all the racist encounters and obstacle I have encounterd in life are a figment of my imagination.
You are speaking from a place of privilege.. because it doesn’t happen to you, it doesn’t exist. how can anyone want to date someone who denies their dail;y struggle.
The other thing is, how do you find out if someone likes you. you ask them? You talk to them, discover if you like them and if they like you.
It seems that many white men know that they will be rejected by black women. They never bother to ask themselves why?.
What is it that is soo glaringly obcious about me that will make black women reject me.
Maybe it has something to do with your ethos or your sentiments.
Look, we are largely more than just bodies for you to play with or props to look good on your arm, yes we are beautiful, yes we are intelligent.. despite a sustained effort by largely white society to tell them otherwise.
how to tell the ones who don’t care if I’m white or purple from those who can never forget for one second that *some* people colored like me oppressed those colored like them many years before I was born?
I know you didn’t mention the “purple people”. Please tell me that there were no purple people harmed in the making of this post. What about the striped and the polka-dot people? Please don’t derail by bringing up purple people. Or green people, as I have a special prejudice against them.
Race relations in America are not about color. Color is only used as a euphemism when speaking about race. My daughter looks like smaller, prettier version of Charlize Theron and there are still plenty of people in this wonderful country that would be glad to burn a cross in her yard.
Ack. Forgive the math. Figure ten to 35 years for the Jim Crow thing and 100 to 130 for slavery. I did not subtract the ages as I should have. Otherwise, my point stands.
I’m tired of the rehashing the racist past of this country.
Slavery still exists in the Middle East and in Africa, and not at the hands of whites.
There’s still a lot of racism in the U.S., but a lot less than anywhere else in the West or Asia.
I’m a “white ethnic” (as defined by black friends in Virginia), and have dated black women.
They are amazing – stunningly beautiful, articulate and embody values which are rapidly disappearing in America.
I think it’s different for me since I grew up in a black neighborhood, and worked with black people my whole life.
People tend to be comfortable with people they spent time with when they were young.
then don’t.
Deny it. deny it’s effects. deflect it, justify it by saying ‘oh well it happens elsewhere’.
But kindly move out of the way when the rest of us are discussing it.
I’m not denying tit.
Perhaps you should stop assuming it is behind every negative experience you have.
Don’t use it as a crutch/copout when men fail to meet up to your expectations.
I know! Do you think, with Michelle Obama as First Lady, there’s a good chance that these values might make a comeback? One can always hope.
Thanks..
Maybe you’d like to point out where in my post I said it was behind every negative experience I have had?
In addition, maybe you would like to point out how I have used it as a crouch when a man fails to meet my expectation..
and whilst you are at it, could you also point out where I’ve stated that any man have failed to meet my personal expectation
The adhominem attacks are par for the course, attack the character wen you can’t attack the arguement. But erm, it’s boring so I’m gonna chuck a duece and leave you to it.
Black & German… I’ll meet you over at Abagond’s..
Cless.. good luck.
dueces
Cless, you’ve opened a can of worms. You know that, right?
soul:
I’d suggest you look into the concept of kyriarchy. And please don’t tell me to “check my privileges”. Lastly, racism isn’t just a one way street- I’ve encountered some myself- and short of speaking out about it when I see it, there’s not much I can do. I don’t have the power you seem to think I have.
Clearly you must think I live in some sheltered suburb rather than the urban combat zone that I do. But there’s just no point in continuing. In my life, I’ve run into two black women who’ve treated me as innocent before guilty. I had a sexual relationship with one and a friendship that exists to this day with the other. I’m happy with that. Good luck with your life.
I don’t have the power you seem to think I have.
Yes, you do. Really, you do even if you don’t notice it.
I’m an incognegro myself so I can tell you: the way I am treated when people think I am white (or even just “not black”) is different from the vitriol I may be exposed to by those that realize I am black. It’s quite shocking and exposes the true irrationality of racism.
[…] link: Why “white men” aren't often pursuing black women « Alvanista Share and […]
Ok German, I’m all ears:
Tell me what power I magically have due to my white skin. Will Klansmen love me? I”m sure they will until they find out I don’t care that Barack is President and that one of my two childhood heros was Jackie Robinson.
Social power? Once again, do you think I am so cool that I, simply by being white could make all other whites value other skin colors more in terms of status?
Really, short of avoiding issues in white neighborhoods I don’t see how I have so much power. I don’t avoid issues in “black” neighborhoods.
So please feel free to enlighten me about how I can single handedly end white racism or whatever else it is that you have against us.
No one expects you to “end white racism” or whatever. Just to acknowledge white privilege and be willing to suspend disbelief when a black woman mentions it.
If you want to know what we are talking about, I’m sure Abagond can tell you all about it. There are plenty of posts from me there, if you are interested.
Here is one:
It’s not the blatant racism that causes the most damage, it’s the subtle variety that’s most insidious.
German:
Fine. And you’ll admit there are situations in which whites can be disadvantaged by racism or is your argument the “institutional power” one in which I have to suffer because a very few fractions of a percentage point of people mostly of my skin color and sex have power even if they don’t really care for me but only go with whatever will get them the most money or votes?
I read your post there, and while it could have been racism it just as easily could have been ignorance. Ive run into plenty of examples in bureaucracies where the right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing and vice-versa.
I can believe you run into racism every now and then, sometimes blatant. I’m also willing to bet that you run into alot of things that aren’t motivated by racism but that you think are.
Uh, oh. You’re trying to derail the topic. The point is that:
you run into racism every now and then, sometimes blatant.
You could have just stopped there. The rest of the text was just to belittle the issue.
[…] 11, 2009 by Cless Alvein Yesterday, I opened on the topic of the rarity of white-male/black-female couplings, and asserted the following: most men are decent and not at all racist, but the bulk of those […]
@Soul:
Oppression is still on going, to deny that or act like it doesn’t exist or to trivialise it is completely appalling and to be in denial. It really is.
*I’ve not trivialized your experiences nor denied racism exists*
It’s like telling me all the racist encounters and obstacle I have encounterd in life are a figment of my imagination.
*Never said any such thing*
You are speaking from a place of privilege.. because it doesn’t happen to you, it doesn’t exist. how can anyone want to date someone who denies their dail;y struggle.
*Fuck you. As a single father I have spent many years in litigation just to have a chance to raise my daughters. I wouldn’t have to do that if I were a woman Where’s my “privilege”?*
The other thing is, how do you find out if someone likes you. you ask them? You talk to them, discover if you like them and if they like you.
*Absolutely*
It seems that many white men know that they will be rejected by black women. They never bother to ask themselves why?.
What is it that is so glaringly obvious about me that will make black women reject me.
*Agreed, but I have no problem approaching, being rejected by or going out with black woman, and have experienced all of these. Collectively, I love black women.*
@Black & German:
from your referred site post:
“We are always told we are not smart enough or not as smart as whites and asians because we are black.
And whites use “statistics” that whites created to prove the fact that blacks are not intelligent.”
Absolutely agree with that point. And I would imagine that is more insidious than just about any other kind of racism that black people experience just about very day of their lives – the assumption that you are intrinsically inferior just because of your skin color.
B&G:
Forget it. The only white man who could possibly get with you would be one who would always go with your opinion on racism. Far as it goes you dodged MY direct question to you, and when one pretends they can read a person’s motivations from a few sentences on a blog on the internet it becomes quite apparent that writing to such a one is a waste of time.
Should I ever date or marry a black woman it won’t be one like you or soul.
@Clarence: I’ve dated black women before and they’ve all had at least a couple of negative experiences with race in the U.S. They don’t usually talk about them in polite company, but they’ve all experienced episodes of nastiness that will make you ill.
It’s not that all white people are racist– that’s clearly false, because most of us aren’t– but virtually all black people I know have dealt with racism first-hand.
Cless:
The existence of white racism is not the point, and I did not deny it. My points are two:
A. Racism is more than a one way street. I’ve experienced black on white racism myself and I know of plenty of racist whites, though they are not a majority of the people I’ve known. And lets not speak of hispanic-black relations in Los Angeles.
B. Relationships are built on trust
I don’t need someone in my life whose sole impulse is to mistrust me based on something that I had no part in.
I don’t need someone in my life whose sole impulse is to mistrust me based on something that I had no part in.
Then I suppose it’s a good thing I’m already married. For what it’s worth my husband does not agree with everything I say, whether on race or any other topic. That would make for quite a dull conversation.
No one is denying that non-white people can be racist. Anyone who has read my previous posts on Abagond knows that I am personally familiar with many such episodes and have even been victim of this myself.
My point was that that was not relevant to the topic at hand and that bringing it up together with my premise (that being white does put you at a relative advantage in most situations) merely served to negate my statement.
It is akin to saying, “Yes the Germans murdered the Jews but the Turks murdered the Greeks as well.” The second part is only stated in order to deflect attention from the first. Although both statements are true, they are not linked and the second does not increase your understanding of the first. It is a logical fallacy; a red herring.
Fuck you. As a single father I have spent many years in litigation just to have a chance to raise my daughters. I wouldn’t have to do that if I were a woman Where’s my “privilege”?
First of all: what’s with the attack? Saying “fuck you” to someone that you are attempting to have a conversation with simply alienates them. You may disagree with Soul but that is not appropriate language to use when dealing with a woman.
Secondly: Why do you assume that we wouldn’t be sympathetic to your cause? Do you think that we are women who feel that fathers are expendable? What have we said to leave that impression? Do you not realize that women who feel passionately about marriage are also often women who value fatherhood? Do you not realize that educated black women ESPECIALLY know and value a man’s contribution to the raising of his children? Do you not realize that you are alienating and attacking your natural allies?
Thirdly: What in the world does this have to do with the topic of “white men and black women”?
Okay, I admit that I derail sometimes myself but at least I’m being pleasant and mentioning dessert…
Re the “fuck you”: I’m tired of women, black or otherwise, who assume I am “privileged” because I am a white male.
Glad to hear your sympathies are with involved fathers.
I definitely think “white privilege” exists. Even in 2009, with affirmative action and relatively low levels of racism, it’s more advantageous to be white than black in this country.
That said, with all else being equal, I’d rather be born a good-looking black person than an average-looking white person, male or female. There are also massive advantages to being good-looking. Although no one talks about “attractive-people privilege”; in 2009, I’d rather part with my whiteness than with being good-looking.
I don’t think men, in this country, hold a privileged position. In much of the world, such as in the Middle East and India, “male privilege” still exists, but I think men get the short end of the stick in the contemporary US. The major reason why “we” have “all the money and power” is because it’s required of us to get these things in order to be socially acceptable, much less sexually attractive. John Kerry – Theresa Heinz marriages are extremely rare– rich women want to marry other rich men– and even when they happen, the man is ridiculed (as Kerry was) and called a “kept man”.
Well, of course they are. Goodness knows, I’ve seen enough horrid female behaviour in my time. But I won’t even get into that because it turns my stomach to even discuss it.
The privilege is related primarily to being white, not male. White women have privileges, as well.
The “fuck you” was still uncalled for.
That said, with all else being equal, I’d rather be born a good-looking black person than an average-looking white person, male or female. There are also massive advantages to being good-looking.
Co-sign. Definitely better to be black and attractive than white and unattractive. But even better to be white and attractive. That is sort of like hitting the genetic lottery, as far as privilege goes.
I surely never claimed white male privilege doesn’t exist.
I definitely felt the exact opposite in family court, though I didn’t experience nearly as much misandry and bigotry as some of my black male friends who got divorced.
Where you stand depends on where you sit. In family court there is definitely a lot of white female privilege going on.
In the current economy it pays to be white. Male, not so much, if at all. Just look at the unemployment stats.
Female privilege definitely exists, but I don’t think the current employment numbers are indicative of that, because I think the workplace is one area of society where female privilege isn’t a problem (if anything, the reverse is). Construction, real-estate, and finance are male-dominated careers. Since the recession took those out the hardest, it’s not surprising that most of the people losing jobs are men.
I was laid off (from a Wall Street job) in April 2008, and I’m completely sure my gender had nothing to do with it. If 90% of a trading firm is male, and there are layoffs, you’d expect 90% of the laid-off to be men.
Investment banking, if anything, is one of the last bastions of male privilege. It’s impossible to “fit in” to banking’s culture without working 100-hour weeks and going to testosterone-heavy social events. (Trading is more meritocratic and somewhat different; I did meet some wickedly talented female traders in my Wall Street days.) Since the greater part of that industry broke off and fell into the ocean, it’s not surprising that a substantial number of privileged (and vocal) men lost their jobs.
That’s true to a point. There are advantages. But still, there is the undercurrent of prejudice that makes some deny black beauty.
Halle Berry often speaks of how she was denied (homecoming or prom) queen because they accused her of stuffing the ballad. Even in her career, she’s had to fight for most of her roles.
If you’re white and pretty, you just are – no question.
There’s nothing “male privilege” about working 100 hour weeks (are women allergic to that?), and as for the “testosterone laden social events”, I’ve known more than a few female investment bankers who have managed at the big banks in the past just fine, and this was going back 15 or so years now.
The relative lack of women in investment banking is self-selection, not male privilege.
Anyone who works 100-hour weeks is making a ridiculous and almost certainly unwise sacrifice, but this is even more true of women.
Men can turn money into social access, and sexual attractiveness, much more easily than women can. A Big Swinging Dick on Wall Street can meet women, while virtually no one desires a 100-hour corporate warrior as a girlfriend. So a man who pursues the hypercompetitive path may be sacrificing friendships and romantic opportunities, but he’s gaining other ones. A woman who does this is just isolating herself and squandering her fertile years, which is why few of them do.
For the record, most people can’t work 100-hour weeks. With my health problems, anything more than 70 is a struggle. I don’t think I’d last two weeks as an IBD analyst. (I was a program trader; hours were closer to 9-7 with lunch eaten at the desk.) Out of the small set of people who can withstand 100+ hour weeks, the vast majority are men.
I’m curious, how many hours do you work now? Any finance/business areas (not accounting) you recommend for someone in college to look into? I think 60 hours or so is the most I would want to work consistently. Anything more than that seems foolish to me, which is why I-banking turns me off. Consulting seems cool, but I do not want to travel all that much. I was thinking corporate finance at a fortune 500 company. I go to a top ten/fifteen school and have an okay GPA (3.4). I’d prefer to not go to NYC as the cost of living and commute is ridiculous there, but rather somewhere in the Northeast or Florida/Atlanta /Chicago (cough…somewhere with Caribbean women…cough). Recommendations Cless?
Now? I work about 45 hours per week on my day job and about 15-20 on other projects, including various freelance writing activities that rarely pay but are fun.
I worked in trading and the hours were 9-7, but the environment was stressful. If you can handle noise and screaming traders, it can be fun. If you’re 22 and don’t care about doing something pointless, it’s not a bad idea to try trading for a few months and see if it’s a fit.
If you want a quant role– also 45-50 hours per week– learn how to program. That’s more important than anything else. Unfortunately, C++ is the lingua franca of finance. It sucks, because it’s a shitty language, but there’s tons of legacy code to thank for that… at least until finance needs concurrent code, which is a fucking intractable nightmare in C++.
Atlanta has a lot of educated black women, although I don’t know if they’re Caribbean. Does Chicago?
-Hmm, I do no think I would like trading all that much. As for quant, I do not think I have the math skills. I am better at analyzing problems/critical thinking than just math (although I do like numbers). I think I am going to pursue corporate finance at a Fortune 500 company and see where it goes (I am only a junior so I am just looking for summer internship now).
-More Haitian than Jamaican in Chicago, but not as many Caribbeans there as in the Northeast/Florida. Chicago has a good amount of educated African American women (like Atlanta), plus a decent chunk of Africans (like most big US cities).
-FWIW, I think Michelle Obama is good-looking as well.
I lived in Chicago for 8 years. Terrible weather, but the culture is generally midwestern politeness combined with east coast liberal attitudes.
It has sufficient numbers of black professionals in general due to less racism, so black women there tend to date other black men.
The business culture in Chicago seems to be less cut-throat than other big cities, so that is a consideration if you are going into corporate. When I worked there, people were very willing to mentor and promote from within.
Washington DC.
Yes, thanks for pointing this out , Nova.
For breaking down the wage gap in micro pieces from from a liberal point of a view I’d recommend Alas, a Blog. However if you want to really get into the nitty gritty of female self selection and critiques of the feminist “glass ceiling” model that go deeper than Warren Farrel I recommend the website Feminist Critics. A poster there, Daran, probably knows as much about males casulties of war, gender in the workplace, and the true percentage of rapes/sexual assaults as anyone on the planet.
Personally, I have never seen even a single black woman who I would consider pretty. I don’t find them attractive. There are rarely some hot ones (as in “I’d hit it, in theory), but that’s it.
And it doesn’t sound like AAs have fantastic personalities either.
Then I feel sorry for you. You must not get out much. I live in New York and see beautiful black women every day, and many of them have great personalities. You should put your prejudices aside and consider talking to one.
I don’t live in the US, and I’m going by what people have said (like all this talk about black women not finding white men “assertive” enough. Pretty obvious what that means).
In any case, I’m not attracted to them. I prefer Asian women.
That’s your opinion. But it’s hard to believe that out of an entire race, you have never found even ONE attractive.
Not one SINGLE attractive black woman? Out of a whole race of women? WOW. you really are sheltered. too bad really.
I think he sees the blackness first and this shuts down his ability to find her attractive, as if there were something wrong about it. Ridiculous and pathetic.
Alvein, are you retarded? I’m “ridiculous and pathetic” because I don’t share your taste in women? How does that even begin to make any sense?
I believe you have a cognitive deficit that renders you to find a large class of people attractive regardless of other features, and many people in that class are quite beautiful. This is unfortunate, mostly for you, and I feel sorry for you. Hence, pathetic.
I wasn’t using “pathetic” in the pejorative, but the neutral, sense.
“Cognitive deficit,” aka “finding some women attractive but not others.”
You seem to be unaware of the existence of the Internet and mass media (are you a little sheltered?). I have seen many, many, many, many, many black women, and not a single one of them has been sufficiently attractive.
What’s wrong with Sanaa Lathan? Do you seriously consider her unattractive?
I am not attracted to her.
Sanaa Lathan is definitely the “racist test”.
See, Cless? These are the guys we’re talking about over at Abagond’s. There’s a lot of them out there; you’d be surprised.
You notice how he phrased his original comment:
I have never seen even a single black woman who I would consider pretty… There are rarely some hot ones (as in “I’d hit it, in theory), but that’s it.
This is beyond ridiculous. Now I’m a racist because I don’t find a particular black woman attractive. Needless to say that this broken logic does not apply to women of other races, so if someone doesn’t find a particular Asian woman attractive, he isn’t being racist at all.
You know what’s really racist? Putting black women on a pedestal and giving them special treatment strictly because of their race.
As for the last part of my comment that you quoted, it simply means that I would, in theory, have a one night stand with such women (I say ‘in theory’ because I don’t practise casual sex). Seeing as how I feel the same way towards women of all races, I fail to see what your point is (or is it this: black women are special unique snowflakes and any man who gazes upon them must immediately prepare for a longterm relationship because to do anything else would be racism etc.).
@Cless
Unfortunately, there are millions more out there in the world just like him. “sigh “
So what? Black women aren’t entitled to anything. Nobody has to find them attractive if they don’t want to.
Fair. I think most women of any race would rather have men like me than the basement virgins who post on the internets about black women being unattractive.
Even if you have that opinion, shut the fuck up about it. It’s rude. I don’t have whole ethnic groups that I find unattractive, but there are physical types I’m not very into, but I don’t make a point of it.
“Basement virgins.” Hah hah. How old are you? Fifteen?
How could it possibly be rude to not be attracted to some women? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while.
It’s rude to continue posting about how you find black women unattractive.
If you don’t want to date them, then don’t, but you know this is a sensitive issue for a lot of black women and if you don’t find black women attractive, then just keep your fucking mouth shut about it.
I have no idea why you would possibly say something that has no purpose other than to make women feel bad about themselves.
There is nothing rude about it, and I’m only continuing to post about it because people continue to talk to me about it.
If this makes black women feel bad about themselves, they really have some issues. It shouldn’t matter to them at all that one person wouldn’t date them because he isn’t attracted to them.
If I were American and found black women attractive, I’d probably stay away from them anyway due to all these racial hangups and race politics and other dumb shit. What a headache.
on October 19, 2009 at 10:17 pm | Reply someone
So what? Black women aren’t entitled to anything. Nobody has to find them attractive if they don’t want to.”
You and the other white blobs aren’t entitled to anything either.
I am sick and tired of trash like you walking around calling all non-white people ugly and then expecting those same people to see you as attractive just because you are not black!
YOU are ugly, how bout that!
I don’t just think, I KNOW whites have nasty personalities, it certainly takes a nasty personality to start slavery and put up “whites only” signs.
So don’t come on here trying to make whites sound like “Holier-than-thou” angels.
What about the whites in my ancestry who fought against slavery, one of whom died in the Civil War?
Yes, some white people are shitty. No one will argue with you about that, and you have a right to be angry. You have every right to be indignant at a society that has perpetrated horrific social injustices against people for no reason other than their skin color. I don’t think it’s fair to hate all of us. I was born in 1983. I had nothing to do with slavery or Jim Crow.
@Cless:
The quote beginning with “What are you looking for? Absolution or Gratitude!” was a response to your post “What about the whites in my ancestry who fought against slavery, one of whom died in the Civil War?”
It was mistakenly posted as a response to “Someone”
Someone, Mea Culpa!
I’m pretty sure I never claimed us “white blobs” (wtf) are entitled to anything.
Where did I express such an expectation? I couldn’t care less what black women think about my level of attractiveness. I’m not interested in them so it makes no difference to me.
Cool story, bro.
Do you have any idea how many different countries and cultures white people consist of?
So by your own admission black people are nasty too, since they have also engaged in slavery and racism (like everyone else). Slavery is, in fact, still practised in some parts of Africa.
Uh… what?
What are you looking for? Absolution or Gratitude!
Although this blog was not intended to discuss the American Civil War, I am going to take my chance to post my reaction to it since you provided us with an opening:
“What about the whites in my ancestry who fought against slavery, one of whom died in the Civil War”
To your assertion that you had descendants who fought and died in the American Civil War and that “I was born in 1983. I had nothing to do with slavery or Jim Crow.” You’re absolutely right, but why should you expect that black people to be thankful to whites and their descendants for fighting to ending slavery, although I’m sure you know that was never the principal motive for war? Its comments like “What about the whites in my ancestry who fought against slavery, one of whom died in the Civil War” like this that drives Blacks batty.
Even though you did not use the word “thankful,” I’m wondering what was the reason for the comment, since the blog is dealing with a completely different topic; thus it would leads one to believe that black people should demonstrate magnanimity for those who fought, and of course, those who lost their lives.
At times, one just has to keep talking to White Americans on the matter of race and race relations and their racism just oozes; not so in this particular case, but this is definitely on one of “CLULESSNESS”
What you fail to understand or is just being disingenuous, the institution of CHATTEL SLAVERY existed throughout the entire early United States – not just the US South. I am just sick and tired of people like you, who believe, that people of African descent should be thankful that they were freed by white people. Nobody had to free anybody, if people of your ilk did not perniciously enslave them in the first place, and even after they were freed, were hamstrung (Jim Crow) for nearly another century by the descendants of that same ilk that held them in chattel servitude. There never would have been the need for the Civil Rights Act, if there was no Jim Crow. Don’t expect American of African descent to pat you on your back, or like-minded people as yourself for abolishing slavery and giving them “rights”
Cease asking for magnanimity from African American because they were freed by whites.
What’s next, reparation from African American to all the descendants and kinfolk of the soldiers who served and died? Highly unlikely!
This is absolutely preposterous. Its ‘tantamount to you gouging out my eyes, hands me a “white cane,” and then assert that I should be thankful for the cane.
Burn down my house, provides me with a hovel and expects gratitude.
This is totally illogical.
You are apart of the white group so you are apart of white supremacy, you didn’t have to be born in the slavery area.
And time is not the reason that racism supposedly
“died down” force, threats, protests and marching is the reason its died down.
You see, you have to fight with white people to make them stop hating you, because they think its right to hate non-whites.
White people took the whites only signs down because they were FORCED to, not because they knew it was wrong.
If the laws went away whites would glady put the signs back up here in 2009.
White supremacy is in their blood and the hatred is in their kidneys it did not just go away.
White men are known for raping and abusing black women for pleasure, and i know that you are one of many whiteboys that seek black women out because you want their body and their genital colors.
But you would treat a white woman like a god just because she is white.
That’s not how it actually works. But nice try.
The average white Westerner would rather jump off a cliff than do anything that could be construed as being politically incorrect. Wake up.
Whereas members of others races have never raped anyone. Of course.
You really need to seek psychiatric treatment.
I bet Erz is a really sweet person in real life, although she obviously has some self-defeating and offensive attitudes that she’d be better off leaving behind. She’s obviously been hurt deeply by racism, and that makes me really sad, but then she’s also one of the more racist posters on this blog.
Its so odd and creepy with you white men calling black women “she-boons” “monkeys” and always referring to us a jungle animals that you suddenly want to get romantic.
White men pursued black women to make them their personal gimps, having sex with them and then making the children slaves too.
Is that love? White men don’t pursue black women because they hate black women AND they know better then to ask for a hug from the women they have been trying to destroy for hundreds of years.
White men pursued blacks to use them like livestock, and then after making them build up the white house and other structures they turn around and call the blacks lazy!!!
If we are so damn lazy then you people could have gone to your precious Scandinavia where you claim the “holier-than-thou” white people are to get slaves!
Looks to me like white people are stupid and lazy because instead of turning their ship and going north they headed straight to AFRICA to pick up the “lazy and inferior” black people.
@Erzulie: with all due respect, I think you’re taking the rotten behaviors of some white people and applying them to the whole race. I’m sure you don’t like it when people use black-perpetrated crimes to depict all blacks as violent. You’re basically doing the same thing. Trust me, we’re not all horrible.
In your worldview, there’s nothing a white man can do that is right. If he doesn’t pursue black women, he’s a racist and is calling them ugly; if he does, he’s objectifying her and obsessed with her genital color. Seriously, do you not see alternatives?
I’m a white man who wants to find a beautiful, intelligent woman and enter a loving relationship with her. She may be white, she may be black, she may be Asian; who knows? Regardless of her skin color, which is utterly irrelevant from my perspective, I will love and cherish her and do everything I can to make her experience of life beautiful. Why is it so hard for you to believe this?
In your worldview, there’s nothing a white man can do that is right. If he doesn’t pursue black women, he’s a racist and is calling them ugly; if he does, he’s objectifying her and obsessed with her genital color. Seriously, do you not see alternatives?
Yep, its no different then in times of slavery.
White men de-humanized black women putting us on an auction block and spreading our genitals open for viewing
and then when they did not get any sex from their superior white wives, they would rape and molest their black female slaves.
A white man is racist because he does not pursue black women and racist because he would only pursue the black woman to derive pleasure from abusing her.
I have been told i am ugly and stupid and worthless just because i am not white, i would not be stupid enough to believe that a group of people that wants to destroy my soul and my humanity, would suddenly love me.
And i don’t believe in the fairy tale crap, you want a woman that you can control and hang on your arm like a trophy you don’t want to love anybody, that’s not real.
Now I hope you’re trolling. Would you really argue that it’s no better, for a black person, to live in 2009 than in the 1839 South?
Forget these men. I’ve been called stupid and ugly and worthless as well, for reasons that had nothing to do with race. I was abused by a babysitter at age 2. I have a 150 IQ (which attracts envious hatred, especially if you’re even slightly socially awkward or haughty) and had an Asperger-like social impairment that persisted into my 20s. I was stalked and falsely accused of a rape I could not have possibly committed in college. I had a metabolic problem that kept me underweight (6’/135#) as a teenager and made my skin bad. My first kiss, at 20, was with an underage complete stranger in a foreign country (didn’t go farther than the kiss; I stopped when I learned that she was 16).
It sucks, but unless you take people as individuals, you’ll never get anywhere. Just accept the possibility that some of us might be legitimate, okay? If you don’t want to date white men, that’s fine, but we’re not all monsters and we don’t hate you. There are white men with black wives and children who love their wives and their families more than anything.
I would give you a hug if we were in the same place. I’m sorry that you’ve had these experiences.
Bullshit.
You can’t convince everybody, Cless.
ErzulieRedEyes,
I’m only going to say this once and then I’m not going to respond to any more of your posts that sound like rants.
Whatever crap you’ve been through with white men, I’ve been through worse. Really, much worse. Much, much, worse. Just trust me on this.
But it’s still not an excuse to turn around and think and behave just like them. There’s never an excuse for that. Being abused by racist white men is not an excuse to sink to their level. I know that you are worth more than that. It will damage your soul and your life and it’s just not worth that. Give it up and move on. Forgive and forget. Let go of the anger.
Otherwise, they’ve won.
Great advice B&G. The hate will eat you alive 😦
on October 20, 2009 at 1:26 pm | Reply Black&German
You can’t convince everybody, Cless.
ErzulieRedEyes,
I’m only going to say this once and then I’m not going to respond to any more of your posts that sound like rants.
Whatever crap you’ve been through with white men, I’ve been through worse. Really, much worse. Much, much, worse. Just trust me on this.
But it’s still not an excuse to turn around and think and behave just like them. There’s never an excuse for that. Being abused by racist white men is not an excuse to sink to their level. I know that you are worth more than that. It will damage your soul and your life and it’s just not worth that. Give it up and move on. Forgive and forget. Let go of the anger.
Otherwise, they’ve won.”
Easy for you to say because you look mixed and exotic.
You do not look like a full blooded african black woman.
You’ll be accepted like Mariah Carey is because you look close enough to being white and you don’t look black.
You look “different from the other blacks” so that’s why you are accepted and callled beautiful by your spouse and the germans.
Germans are very bigoted just like in their old Nazi third reich days, and they hate black people like they do the jews.
BUT if you are a black woman that looks near white or mixed then they would consider you cute or pretty.
And i could never sink to a white man’s level,
i’m not enslaving, raping or oppressing anyone.
Women who are mixed are exotic are not necessarily considered more beautiful. I am fully black and I share some of the same experiences with Black and German. In fact, dare I say, most of my problems have been with black women. Which hurts the most.
I hope that you are able to open your mind to different types of people.
You know where slavery is still practised? In Africa and the Middle-East. Not in the West. And did you know that slavery has been practised almost everywhere, even in places like Korea? No, of course you didn’t.
If you think only white people commit rape, you either belong in a mental institution or need to go through high school again.
*sigh* Cless, this is getting old. Is there anyway you could put an end to this?
Can I give Erzulie a hug?
It’s interesting that you get really angry just because someone isn’t attracted to black women, yet when the black equivalent of a Stormfront member repeatedly goes on delusional racist rants against white people, you’re not very bothered and in fact think she’s some kind of poor victim.
I’m not angry that you’re not attracted to them. I just wish you’d not talk about it on my blog. It’s a sensitive subject for some people. No one is going to tell you that you have to date black women if you don’t want to, but saying that they’re unattractive is obnoxious and offensive.
I feel bad for Erzulie, and I guess she doesn’t upset me because I know, factually speaking, that she’s wrong.
Right. It’s “rude” to say one isn’t attracted to black women (why?), because it’s a “sensitive” subject (why?), yet ErzulieRedEyes’s racist rants are apparently not rude. Makes sense.
Also, you’re the one who made this blog post about white men not pursuing black women. If this is such a sensitive subject, don’t talk about it.
You’re an extreme example of a person afflicted by white liberal guilt. You’ll casually make any amount of anti-white and pro-black statements, but if anyone does the opposite, even in the most minor ways, you take offense.
Erzulie’s rants are incredibly rude and unpleasant. I’ve been arguing with her, although I’m beginning to realize that there’s no point, since she doesn’t listen to a thing I say.
I don’t have time right now to look back at what you said about how I reacted, but if all you were saying was that you didn’t personally find black women attractive, then I overreacted and I apologize.
Only if you want her to stick a knife in your back. I wouldn’t go there, Cless.
Put down the keyboard. Put your hands up and back away from the computer…
I’m just tired of hearing about people being raped. I don’t need nightmares. I’m not reading or responding to anymore of their posts.
An end. To this. Please.
Good night.
@ cless
I think the real problem of “someone’s” statement about not finding black women attractive to him is that he is saying that he has not seen one SINGLE black female (meaning all females out there as far as the eye can see or what you can see on the internet) is attractive. That is encompasing the whole earth full of black women (which he could not have possibly seen) that he is saying are not attractive. A false statement if ever i read one. It’s fine that he is not attracted to black women…but to say there are none out there was where the problem comes in. and of course black women and most people would find that hard to believe because there are attractive females in every race. Just because he is not attracted to them, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Some black women are attractive, but not pretty. In terms of appearance, I would not date them.
Huh? How could I possibly be making statements about the attractiveness of people I have never seen? I am quite obviously talking about the women I have seen.
I disagree. That’s your opinion, and let’s leave it at that. Please don’t state that as if it were an objective fact.
That sort of thing only sets Erzulie off. I don’t want to have to start deleting peoples’ posts or putting them on moderation lists.
At no point have I suggested that it would be fact.
That is fine “someone” that is how you should have put in the first place and then no one would have really thought you were being racist if you were just truly stating your preference.
on October 20, 2009 at 10:39 pm | Reply someone
Some black women are attractive, but not pretty. In terms of appearance, I would not date them.
That is encompasing the whole earth full of black women (which he could not have possibly seen) that he is saying are not attractive.
Huh? How could I possibly be making statements about the attractiveness of people I have never seen? I am quite obviously talking about the women I have seen.”
And I’m sure you are very ugly.
Another fat, old white redneck sitting around insulting blacks to make your self feel high and mighty.
You’re too much of a coward to say your dirt to a black
person’s face so you hide behind your computer screen
in order to feel like a “man.”
Just like so many black cowards hide behind their computers to feel like “men”. Shut up already, moron, and go to your NOI meetings.
I think the real problem of “someone’s” statement about not finding black women attractive to him is that he is saying that he has not seen one SINGLE black female (meaning all females out there as far as the eye can see or what you can see on the internet) is attractive. That is encompassing the whole earth full of black women (which he could not have possibly seen) that he is saying are not attractive.
Exactly! That’s what makes it racist. There’s nothing wrong with preferring one type over another. For example, my husband finds pale skin unattractive but he could still look at a beautiful Scandinavian woman and see that she’s attractive.
Do you even know what racism is?
I think “someone” is TokyoJesusFist / You Know Who. He is Finnish or Scandinavian and has an affinity for Asian women, and I half-suspect he is high IQ and on the autistic spectrum.
Unless he’s a totally different guy, you’ll only engage him in an endless stream of back-and-forth arguments that lead to nowhere but frustration. He’s a good guy though, for the most part, and dislikes pick-up.
Maybe you shouldn’t take lurker so seriously. In case you haven’t noticed, he is mentally ill.
Asperger’s is on the autistic spectrum, and it is often used to describe those who have little nonverbal communication skills and limited empathy for others.
It doesn’t mean that you’re not brilliant, just that you have trouble being persuasive and relating to others. Bluntness and honesty are not bad things by any means. But politeness can’t hurt either.
First, I’d like to say that I’m not ‘someone’.
Secondly, his point that ‘cruel ice-people’ aren’t the only racists is a point that needs to be made.
Third, the instigators of black people’s grievance mentality are the ones that need to pay. Reverend Wright(Obama’s Preacher) is allowed to preach his craziness in Chicago because the people in charge of Chicago want him to. They want angry blacks running around abusing white people.
Dogs go after the stick beating them. Men should go after the person holding the stick.
The nature of the name of the post is what is called in leagal terms a leading question,a good judge would dismiss it, since there is no way to answer it ,and the prosection would ,be in a dominant prosition in the arguement,there is no way to rebuff such a veiw, since it is based total on the negitive,the positive would be, why black women are pursuing white men,
If you answer it won way you are condemed ,if you answer it another you are condemed.
INSTEAD I WILL SAY IT IS A STUPID QUESTION, TO START WITH?
For sure, these chicks are bewitching however these boy crazy. Check out Ina Standors http://tinyurl.com/yc7km2
I know that I am a bit late to this conversation; however, I must say that given my personal experience with dating white men, the possibilty of me dating another one is pretty low.
I would say that pretty much all of them have said things ranging from “black men get huge easily because of their genes”, ” you only got your scholarship because you’re a black women”, “Black men run fast because they are black”, “You’re pretty good looking for a black girl”. Maybe all of them happened to be jerks looking for that “black experience. Obviously, these flings did not last long.
I will say that I’ve noticed that white men tend to stick to anything but black. Look at match.com. Most of them would rather date a fishing pole than a black woman. I could be biased from my experiences at the University of Michigan where I even got a random call from a white guy and stated “Eww, date a black girl!?” Long story short, he thought my number was a girl he met at a frat party. Also exacerbating this problem is the fact that if you look at mainstream media, you see nothing but a sea of white faces. Scarlett Johansson is God’s gift to man, Angelina Jolie has the best lips…
Right now I’m with a black man and it has been great. We have both dated interracially and have had similar experiences. To be honest though, it’s his personality that appeals me the most. NOT his race.
If I were to date a white man in the future, he would have to be down to earth and have a racially and culturally diverese background. Preferably a sociologist….
White men just don’t do it for me, both physically and mentally. Maybe this is a really bold statement to say but something is just lacking innately from them. Its just some type of void they have Its almost like they constantly need to feel more worthy than others because deep down inside they don’t and know they aren’t worthy.
I can’t just can’t see being in a relationship with one on a romantic level.
7
Disregard previous/
Quite late to the game. Just wondering if Cless is still trying to fight the good fight?
My other thought is/was – does antbody not stop to think what this does to the chilfren?
Seriously…
Does anyone not think mixed race chilgren get caught in the middle?
I’m so shocked by the comments left here. I’m a black woman and I think white men are great! I have had many positive interactions with them (romantic, friendship, professional and otherwise) and I know many more black women who feel the same way.
I think the black women/white men who are finding that they continually have problems with white men/black women is because they themselves are angry inside and that anger will turn ANYONE off. The issue is really inside that specific individual and not attributed to any one single group.
I suggest to those individuals who seem to have the respective chips on their shoulders to not view someone as the “white devil slave master” or the “ghetto hoochie mama” because generally speaking most white men and most black women are pretty darn cool.
Mimi
you are so right. my wife is a beautiful black woman and we met before we deployed to IRAQ and got married after our deployment. what we have encountered is the looks and comments we get from black males that are out with white women, this has caused me a few fights with them because I take it as disrespect to my wife and I will honor her till I die.;
May I just say what a comfort to uncover an individual who really understands what they’re talking about online. You certainly realize how to bring a problem to light and make it important. More and more people ought to check this out and understand this side of your story. It’s surprising you are not more popular because you surely possess the gift.
A lot of interesting comments here. As the white father of a white-Asian child who has also been in more than one long-term relationship with an African-American lady, here’s what I’ve learned, for what it’s worth.
1. Most people, worldwide, don’t know other people’s story. Most whites don’t really understand what blacks have gone through — and are going through — in America. Read some books on post-traumatic slave syndrome for starters. And most blacks don’t understand how late to the “privilege” party a number of whites in America have arrived — I have suffered discrimination because I am a Catholic more than once, as have many of my family members. This may come as a shock to many people of color, but not all us white males feel like we’re full citizens either. That’s not to belittle the far worse experiences that blacks have suffered, it’s to enlarge the discussion — America has been an unfair place for many many people. It was basically set up by rich white Protestants for themselves but over time, other groups have been able to get a slice of the pie through both struggle and through peaceful change.
2. That being said, the world is an unfair place, and it’s by others’ sacrifice that it gets better. Some here have said they have no reason to be grateful to any white people who died in the Civil War since they shouldn’t have been enslaved in the first place (btw, black men also died in the Civil War). The second part of the statement is true, but not the first — aside from religion or a humanism rooted in mutual protection, there’s actually no reason any of us should expect to be free from harm or enslavement. To use a cliche, freedom isn’t free, it’s a right won by others for us, and I’m sorry, we do owe them our thanks. I praise God for the white, black, Hispanic and Asian men and women who died so that I might be able to be free of Naziism, Japanese imperialism, etc. We are animals, at the end of the day, and fear, sadly, more often than love, rules our world. Slavery is a logical extension of our baser impulses, every race has practiced it — and still does, from the E. European sex trade to Africa and Asia’s ongoing slave problems to this day. Every generation must win its freedom anew, the U.S. civil war merely changed the game somewhat for some people, but the struggle is far, far from over. I would recommend everyone here look into the contemporary anti-slavery movement, there are plenty of people worldwide who would trade places with all of us if only to have a few moments of real freedom.
3. A few of you have decried race-mixing. C’mon, if you won’t marry your own relatives because of the genetic problems it would cause, do the math — people of your own race look like you because you are more closely related to them than to people of other races — if we are to remain an intelligent species, there has to be some interracial marriages and breeding. Otherwise the DNA pool becomes stagnant and eventually deadly. In other words, if you haven’t figured it out yet, Hitler was wrong. Racism is actually a form of suicide, and Hitler took his own life, so stay with me, people …
Finally, a thought that keeps me sane — I don’t “deserve” love and no one has a “right” to be happy or married. If someone commits to you, they are giving up their freedom so that both they and you can be happy — that’s a huge gift. If that gift comes to you in the guise of a person of another color, I’d advise you to take it. True love is so precious it’s silly to reject it because of racism. That being said, to each his own. I find women of all races, shapes and sizes attractive, from tall athletic women to petite delicate women — why define beauty by one standard? And I am honored whenever any of them find me attractive and don’t expect any woman to simply want me because I exist. If you take love as a gift, not as a right, and work to create in yourself the kind of person who can attract that gift, rather than the kind of person who resents others finding it, you’ll find more of it, trust me.
Peace out, brothers and sisters.
soul you are from the age group of 18-60? how would you no about the jim crow laws and salvery why do black people always have to bring up slavery for? isnt that being racist to whites that had nothing to do with has? white males that didnt live back then ? soul black people are racist to whites because blacks like you brain wash them with hate for whites that have nothing to do with slavery or jim crow laws lol your the reason why black men leave black women because of your alls narrow minded moronic ideaslol
I wonder about that too. One thing about Black women, they are honest and strongly in bed. Most of Black women treat a man with full respect. They are friendly and loyal to relationship and marriage. They believe in God and try to be good ones. They are intelligent.
I am married to a lovely BLACK WOMAN. some of the problem with white males going after a beautiful black woman is what we see on TV and in MOVIES about how black woman act. It had me turned off for awhile till I met my wife and she has never acted like that so to all the males out there thinking about getting with a black female go and ask what is the worst that can happen she declines, but remember not all women want to be seen with certain people so move on till you find your soul mate
WHITE MEN ARE JERK, I PREFER MY OWN RACE, WHITE MEN ARE CHEATER BASTARD
No one cares, bitch.
Reblogged this on The Chegan.
White men are evil satanic devil’s sporn. The whole white evil race hates blacks and wants us dead that’t why they enslaved us but we is still here by the grace of God.
So I married a black woman. I am a white guy and find black women to be the most attractive people on the planet. I had not dated or asked a black woman out before I met my wife but always admired the looks of black women. I am aware of the disrespect some people treat black people with and do not understand it. Think about all the cosmetic surgery done today, butts, boobs, lips. Black girls women have all these curves naturally so society itself is trying to get emulate them. I am married to a west African lady. She has dignity and class sorely lacking in some cultures today. Men of the world if you want a loyal loving wife who is confident in herself and very family oriented marry a beautiful black woman if she will have you.
The author says educated black woman a lot. It makes me wonder if ‘uneducated’ women are less desirable and what would classify someone as ‘uneducated’.
To me, I think or say, as the truth, that most men in general (white, black, other races, and even foreign) do not date or marry black American women because of the strong personalities of the women. I hate to say this. But, most black women (not all of them) in United States are arrogant, loudmouthed, disrespectful, foolish, opinionated, etc. I know this as a fact because I have dealt with them at my previous jobs, schools, and other places. I even have some relatives who have those negative characteristics too.
Most black women in foreign countries know how to act and control themselves. Plus, they are very attractive. Good examples are the ones in Dominican Republic and Brazil and even Colombia. I have written a blog post about black foreign women. If any man ever wants to date or marry a black woman without the drama, headaches, etc., go to Latin America. He would not be disappointed.
I plan to go back to Santiago, Dominican Republic next year.
If anyone is interested in reading any of my 100+ blog posts in “Foreign Love Web”, please do so.
I would appreciate it.